MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code (opens in new tab)

I would absolutely encourage everyone reading this to check out Reticulum [1] if you haven't already. I believe the base project might be in need of new maintainers(?) at the moment and the main dev has some very strong takes, but it is a very well-thought out approach to distributed networking at the protocol layer. The existing implementations out there include a desktop app which can function over the internet (IP) or a USB connection to some existing LoRA boards. I recently purchased a LilyGo T-Echo [2] and have had a great experience flashing the open-source firmware and using it connected to a desktop over USB or connected over Bluetooth to the fantastic new companion app Columba [3]. This app seriously makes Reticulum feel like a first class citizen when it comes to parity support for messaging. You can even send files/images (with limitations of course)! And since it works at the network level, you can make your own apps to run over Reticulum as well.

[1] https://reticulum.network/ [2] https://lilygo.cc/products/t-echo-lilygo [3] https://github.com/torlando-tech/columba

What is it with mesh projects and having these super draconian trademark enforcers? Meshtastic is the same. One of the main reasons I got interested in MeshCore was reading the Meshtastic trademark rules and just finding them... really really over the top.

>We have always been wary of AI generated code, but felt everyone is free to do what they want and experiment, etc. But, one of our own, Andy Kirby, decided to branch out and extensively use Claude Code, and has decided to aggressively take over all of the components of the MeshCore ecosystem: standalone devices, mobile app, web flasher and web config tools.

>And, he’s kept that small detail a secret - that it’s all majority vibe coded.

Without any more context, I am highly suspicious of this framing.

1) Someone "taking over" the ecosystem seems like an entirely different issue. How is this possible? Does it mean he's publishing things and people want to use them?

2) Is the code bad? It sounds like they had no idea he was using AI. That seems to imply there was nothing wrong with the code as-is. Why not judge it on it's merits?

>The team didn’t feel it was our place to protest, until we recently discovered that Andy applied for the MeshCore Trademark (on the 29th March, according to filings) and didn’t tell any of us.

Taking this at face value, this is indeed hostile and bad.

But no, I'm not going to get outraged that someone is simply using Claude Code.

I've played with MeshCore and Meshtastic a bit, and while they are fun, the general hype seems overblown. The "SHTF" types that get involved with this tend to just taint the whole concept for me. I was/am interested in the use cases for building sensor networks, but most of the chatter seems to be around people who just want to send Hello World type texts back and forth, without realizing how poorly a network like this would perform in a real SHTF scenario.

Is this client app still closed source? Non-starter for me, also a strong indicator that anything like this was bound to happen, and this will not be the end of it.

As they say, there is an .io[1] website with the "MESHCORE" logo, and a .co.uk[2] website with the "MESHCORE(tm)" logo.

[1]: https://meshcore.io

[2]: https://meshcore.co.uk

I’ve never used this project and don’t know anyone involved.

But it sure seems interesting how every time I hear about someone just doing a “rewrite it all with AI“ they seem to turn out to be a giant jerk.

Maybe not the only one. I don’t know enough backstory to judge how trustworthy this post is.

But the signal to noise ratio on my little test above seems pretty good.

I came across this Andy Kirby guy on youtube, and his videos really came across as very sensationalized, exaggerated and clickbaity, which drew me away from meshcore, as I associated him with the project organization. This seems to validate my gut feeling.

>Would you trust AI generated mesh firmware?

It's ridiculous to me that they're concerned about the trustworthiness of AI-generated code when their code quality is so low. They don't even have automated tests and ignore attempts to add them.[0, 1, 2, 3]

Last I checked, there's little validity checking in the code, so it's possible to broadcast nonsense values (like GPS coordinates outside of Earth's bounds) and the code happily accepts it.

And that's fine if they're just like a scrappy upstart doing their best, but it annoys me to be so high and mighty about their code quality when they don't invest in it.

I really want to like MeshCore but I feel like its stewardship makes it hard. The main two people I know running it are Scott Powell and Liam Cottle, both of whom are trying to build businesses on closed-source layers on top of the firmware. I don't think there's anything wrong with an open-core business model (I ran such a business myself), but it creates perverse incentives where the core maintainers try to suppress information about the open-source alternatives and push their own closed-source paid products.

Also, MeshCore's recommended broadcast settings for the US are illegal.[4] I emailed the Liam and Scott about this months ago, and they ignored me.

[0] https://github.com/meshcore-dev/MeshCore/pull/925

[1] https://github.com/meshcore-dev/MeshCore/issues/1059

[2] https://github.com/meshcore-dev/MeshCore/pull/1065

[3] https://github.com/meshcore-dev/meshcore.js/pull/11

[4] https://github.com/meshcore-dev/MeshCore/issues/945

Aggressive promotion by badmouthing any other mesh, and now this - seems rather British. :)

I love using AI to develop and I think it is important in modern development, but you definitely have to disclose it because there is a difference between AI and human written code is key.

It is essential to disclose it.

Ah, the cliche story of most open source projects! Still, that was a dick move to hijack the project just because you were the “front end” or the promoter, and found that AI can help so you backstabbed the team and hijacked the trademark as well, class A a-hole!

Just a word of caution, claude code might look impressive if your knowledge is shallow or intermediate in a topic, but if you know what you’re doing, once you dig deeper it starts to introduce plenty of scope creeps into your code base, piling one on top of another that you won’t even recognize your own code shortly.

I think it was a good decision. I just spent a couple weeks doing experiments with meshcore/meshtastic/reticulum/... comparing them to our stealth solution and I experienced a functional core in meshcore surrounded by a lot of vibe coded slop.

In particular I did not like the shoddy documentation of the various vibe coded interfaces and how brittle the integration experience felt because of them.

It’s funny how a standard power grab over cash and control is being packaged as some "Holy War against AI"

Highlighting the Claude usage in the headline is a blatant move to bait the anti-AI crowd and farm sympathy points. The real issue has nothing to do with who generated the AST -whether it was meat-ware or a transformer - the issue is the brand hijacking. Stop dragging technology into this; it’s just pure legal scumbaggery

The key takeaway from this is that drama loving dinosaurs live among us. Moving on.

Lovely, another open source rugpull.

Is this the new way? Attract a lot of developers, and when you think you can sell the product , you take all their code and call it your own.

Has this worked out for someone so far?

Spicy take but I think this whole Lora thing is a dead end bad technology not worth our time.

Wifi HaLow 802.11ah is finally out & available, sometimes at ok prices. We don't really have ad-hoc communication pioneered for wifi, but it's doable and we ought lean into it, rather than using some totally different stack, especially one that is under strict control of a single company.

What we learn doing wifi halow can directly port and improve the rest of ways we connect. That would be grand.