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0 pointstaffydavid18d ago0 comments

> In contrast, EU/Russia and EU/US relationships actually make more sense, because both partners have mutual self-interest to maintain a relationship.

Would love to know how you can defend the claim that the EU and China are fundamentally not aligned, unlike the EU Russia and EU US.

Russia is at war with a country that wants to join the EU. The US almost invaded EU territory at the start of this year and threatened to leave NATO. China and the EU have done nothing but sign trade agreements throughout all that time

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shmeeed18d ago

To be fair, up until 2022 and 2025 respectively, the common understanding was that EU/US and even EU/Russian relationships were beneficial for all parties involved.

Then both relationships were unnecessarily and unilaterally broken, and China profited from that.

People here like to dump on the EU, but I' argue that considering they were betrayed by two of their most important strategic partners within a span of four years, they're still holding up quite well.

tristanj18d ago

Russia has cheap energy and abundant natural resources, but lacks industrial capacity. Europe needs both, and has decent industry. There is mutually beneficial trade.

The US has the world's strongest military. The US offers Europe military protection in exchange for military access and political sway to maintain its position as the global hegemon. In exchange, Europe gets to export its goods to the US, backs up the US on the world stage, and Europe profits from a trade surplus. It's win-win.

A Europe-China deal has neither of these. China does not have abundant natural resources to export. And China will never provide military protection to Europe. And China does not need anything from Europe. The best Europe can offer is market access, to buy Chinese overproduced manufacturing, but that will decimate Europe's industry. Europe doesn't have an equivalent good that China needs, so it will run a trade deficit, which is a losing trade in the long term. It's win-lose: China wins, Europe loses. A relationship with China will never provide the same level of benefits as Europe's relationships with the US or Russia.

Any idea of Europe replacing its relationships with a new one with China is a short sighted knee-jerk reaction.

taffydavidOP17d ago

I agree that Europe has things that Russia needs and vice versa, and that China does not need as much from Europe. This would be the basis of great trade relationships if Russia were not also trying to fragment Europe. We can't think purely in capitalistic terms when there are non capitalistic motives.

China, long term, may be a less needy trade partner, but they are not trying to destabilize Europe.

It's far more short-sighted to go into business with someone who's trying to burn your house down, rather than try and trade with the rich guy down the street who might not give you the best deal

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