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0 pointsjillesvangurp20d ago0 comments

I used to work for Nokia back when they still made phones. Replaceable batteries were very normal then. Phones were a bit thicker than today but not massively so. These days phones are actually thinner but much larger. I had a "are you happy to see me or is that a Nokia" type Nokia 9300. That was a brick. But it had a full hw keyboard. and flipped open it wasn't that much bigger than a modern smart phone.

You could argue that the trend towards more energy dense batteries and wireless charging could enable new interesting form factors. Recent phones have magnetic connectors for external wireless chargers/batteries that snap to the back. Most of bulk and weight of a phone is for accommodating batteries. You could make an argument that making a phone with replaceable batteries is easier than ever. Many cameras have a bulge for the camera. The negative space of the rest of the phone could easily hold a swappable battery. How critical are those 3mm really?

0 comments

denkmoon20d ago

If they filled that negative space my phone wouldn't rock annoyingly and sit awkwardly on flat surfaces, and that would be a great shame.

argsnd20d ago

If you filled the negative space on an iPhone 17 Pro/Max it would be a horrendously unwieldy phone. People who say this stuff seriously underestimate the disastrous effect on ergonomics increasing the whole phone from 8.75mm to 13.2mm would have.

SomeUserName43220d ago

Would only need to be at the top, to balance out the camera.

The only reason I use a case is that the iPhone is close to unusable on a flat surface without it.

solenoid093720d ago

The iPhone is already heavy as a brick, and a battery is a couple orders of magnitude heavier than a TPU shell covering the same volume.

wonnage20d ago

People already do this by buying cases

argsnd20d ago

Most would continue to buy cases which would only make these phones even thicker

ghighi787820d ago

I buy cases to make my phone feel thicker around 12mm. I have no idea what you're taking about.

Cthulhu_20d ago

I suspect (but am no expert) that the main arguments for integrated batteries are actually to extend the lifetime and sturdiness; drop your Nokia and there's a chance the battery pops out and gets damaged, drop it in the water and the battery compartiment is a point of ingress.

I'm arguing that the sealed / glued / tightly packed / irreplaceable battery thing helps keep phones working for longer.

Of course the counterpoint is that often the battery is the first component to go, and this law is intended to make it easier to keep them in working order for longer.

jenadine20d ago

> drop your Nokia and there's a chance the battery pops out.

This was actually a feature: by having the phone split in pieces, it would spread the kinetic energy and prevent worse damage.

cm-t20d ago

Fairphones already have replacable battery for more than a decade (2013?), so yes, it could, can, hold a swappable battery.

ChrisRR20d ago

It wasn't even that long ago. My Galaxy S4 had a back plate that clipped on and was still thin

rciorba20d ago

And the Galaxy S5 that came after it, still had a replaceable battery while being waterproof.

aivisol20d ago

I have my 9300 still in a drawer ( checked ) . Interesting if it is possible to find a replacement battery for it and what functionality would still be usable? A physical SIM, 3G still works…

theshrike7920d ago

If it's one of the BL/BH/etc batteries you can still get them.

They're somewhat of a standard in DIY circles because they're a familiar form and all of the support stuff for them has existed for decades.

n4r920d ago

Nokia still make phones. They even had a line of smartphones until last year. I've got an XR20 "rugged" phone that's served me well for a few years.

jillesvangurpOP20d ago

That's technically HMD a separate company but with some Nokia people involved. Nokia just licensed the Nokia brand to them and I think that deal ran out some time ago. I had a Nokia Android phone before I got my Pixel 6 a few years ago. Decent value device but the camera was a bit meh.

Nokia actually did an Android phone just before MS acquired them which they then promptly killed. And then of course they pulled the plug on the whole business unit. HMD apparently still makes feature phones based on Series 30. That's the pre-smart phone platform that a lot of Nokia fans remember fondly. The famously indestructible phones.

n4r920d ago

Ah, good to know!

joseda-hg20d ago

Honestly, I'd live with slightly smaller batteries if the change mechanism allowed easy swaps

Have more than one and I can chain enough to last me indefinitely

giantrobot20d ago

If you remember Nokia's batteries they were covered in a relatively thick ABS shell. They were also, compared to today, had laughably little storage. A Series 40 Nokia just did not draw that much power. The single GSM/PCS radio also sipped power.

Even if you stripped a 5G phone down to a Series 40-esque interface the 5G radios alone would use more power than a whole 3310.

In order to get the power density modern phones need they require high power Li-poly batteries. An extra 3mm worth of ABS shell is a lot of lost capacity. You can't sell user serviceable Li-poly batteries without a protective shell. You'd never get a UL rating because Li-polys are dangerous if mishandled.

szszrk20d ago

I found out somewhat recently that those Nokia batteries (like BL-5C) are still used in hardware. You can still pick them up on some stores.

I came across them in portable radios (portable FM radios, small global radios, plane listening radios and similar).

jillesvangurpOP20d ago

The N95 had something like 995 mAh. A modern iphone would have about 4x that.

Also interesting to know is that BYD was supplying a lot of phone batteries back then. I think they also supplied to Nokia. Phone batteries is what made them big.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

denkmoon20d ago

If they filled that negative space my phone wouldn't rock annoyingly and sit awkwardly on flat surfaces, and that would be a great shame.

argsnd20d ago

SomeUserName43220d ago

Would only need to be at the top, to balance out the camera.

The only reason I use a case is that the iPhone is close to unusable on a flat surface without it.

solenoid093720d ago

The iPhone is already heavy as a brick, and a battery is a couple orders of magnitude heavier than a TPU shell covering the same volume.

wonnage20d ago

People already do this by buying cases

argsnd20d ago

Most would continue to buy cases which would only make these phones even thicker

ghighi787820d ago

I buy cases to make my phone feel thicker around 12mm. I have no idea what you're taking about.

Cthulhu_20d ago

I'm arguing that the sealed / glued / tightly packed / irreplaceable battery thing helps keep phones working for longer.

Of course the counterpoint is that often the battery is the first component to go, and this law is intended to make it easier to keep them in working order for longer.

jenadine20d ago

> drop your Nokia and there's a chance the battery pops out.

This was actually a feature: by having the phone split in pieces, it would spread the kinetic energy and prevent worse damage.

cm-t20d ago

Fairphones already have replacable battery for more than a decade (2013?), so yes, it could, can, hold a swappable battery.

ChrisRR20d ago

It wasn't even that long ago. My Galaxy S4 had a back plate that clipped on and was still thin

rciorba20d ago

And the Galaxy S5 that came after it, still had a replaceable battery while being waterproof.

aivisol20d ago

I have my 9300 still in a drawer ( checked ) . Interesting if it is possible to find a replacement battery for it and what functionality would still be usable? A physical SIM, 3G still works…

theshrike7920d ago

If it's one of the BL/BH/etc batteries you can still get them.

They're somewhat of a standard in DIY circles because they're a familiar form and all of the support stuff for them has existed for decades.

n4r920d ago

Nokia still make phones. They even had a line of smartphones until last year. I've got an XR20 "rugged" phone that's served me well for a few years.

jillesvangurpOP20d ago

n4r920d ago

Ah, good to know!

joseda-hg20d ago

Honestly, I'd live with slightly smaller batteries if the change mechanism allowed easy swaps

Have more than one and I can chain enough to last me indefinitely

giantrobot20d ago

Even if you stripped a 5G phone down to a Series 40-esque interface the 5G radios alone would use more power than a whole 3310.

szszrk20d ago

I found out somewhat recently that those Nokia batteries (like BL-5C) are still used in hardware. You can still pick them up on some stores.

I came across them in portable radios (portable FM radios, small global radios, plane listening radios and similar).

jillesvangurpOP20d ago

The N95 had something like 995 mAh. A modern iphone would have about 4x that.

Also interesting to know is that BYD was supplying a lot of phone batteries back then. I think they also supplied to Nokia. Phone batteries is what made them big.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse