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0 pointswredcoll2mo ago0 comments

> engagement geometry means an 4:1 fight is always going to be costly

That's not how 6th gen fighter combats work. You get hit by missiles and explode without ever even detecting the opponent.

Does china have better stuff than f16s? Sure (and modern f16s are not the same as 1970s f16s which makes my point harder to understand in the first place anyways) but at some point, with some military technologies, you can't beat them with quantity.

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6 comments · 2 top-level

angry_octet2mo ago· 2 in thread

That's how your imagination of 5th fighters work (because there are no 6th gen fighters in service), as if they are somehow invisible. This is a misunderstanding of RADAR.

Lower frequency RADAR will pick up F-35s, but not with enough precision to generate a target track. Pilots spend a lot of thought on the problem of signature management.

A Chinese Wedgetail would be extremely dangerous, as it could provide a very good detection, and with a close enough X-band RADAR you will get a target, and then it is up to kinetic escape/EW/decoys. That is a bad situation to be in during a large force engagement.

The PLAAF is of course working on longer range and faster AEW&C and jam resistant data link and expendable sensors. It is just a matter of time.

wredcollOP2mo ago

I'm not trying to say that f35s are immune to modern chinese technology, I'm trying to say they're immune to previous generation stuff. They don't need to be literally invisible, you can know where they are all you want if you can't actually hit them with a missile.

There's a lot of things that complicate actual fights, people get lucky, people get unlucky, you do clever things like predict incoming sortie directions and saturate that area, but while the f35 is not produced in the same numbers as say, the p51, it's not "the last starfighter" either, the opponent has to get lucky a whole bunch of times before their ability to resist has been removed.

fooker2mo ago

> I'm trying to say they're immune to previous generation stuff

S400 works just fine for detecting F-35s.

2 more replies

maxerickson2mo ago· 2 in thread

It depends a little bit on how many bang bangs the boom boom has.

wredcollOP2mo ago

You fire all your missiles then.. you turn around and leave. The enemy isn't in range to engage you, you're flying away at least the same speed they're chasing, what are they going to do?

maxerickson2mo ago

The enemy isn't in range to engage you

That's convenient. Hopefully they don't use their massive numerical advantage in some sort of scheme to make it not true.

1 more reply

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6 comments · 2 top-level

angry_octet2mo ago· 2 in thread

That's how your imagination of 5th fighters work (because there are no 6th gen fighters in service), as if they are somehow invisible. This is a misunderstanding of RADAR.

Lower frequency RADAR will pick up F-35s, but not with enough precision to generate a target track. Pilots spend a lot of thought on the problem of signature management.

The PLAAF is of course working on longer range and faster AEW&C and jam resistant data link and expendable sensors. It is just a matter of time.

wredcollOP2mo ago

fooker2mo ago

> I'm trying to say they're immune to previous generation stuff

S400 works just fine for detecting F-35s.

2 more replies

maxerickson2mo ago· 2 in thread

It depends a little bit on how many bang bangs the boom boom has.

wredcollOP2mo ago

You fire all your missiles then.. you turn around and leave. The enemy isn't in range to engage you, you're flying away at least the same speed they're chasing, what are they going to do?

maxerickson2mo ago

The enemy isn't in range to engage you

That's convenient. Hopefully they don't use their massive numerical advantage in some sort of scheme to make it not true.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse