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0 pointsanalog312mo ago0 comments

Can it be challenged under the European constitution?

0 comments

13 comments · 6 top-level

rvnx2mo ago· 5 in thread

I wouldn't trust the European Union to be the one that will challenge that German mobilization register at all.

COVID-19 has proven that if anything, the European Union tends to spread national initiatives among other countries (and Germany is often a leader in EU).

In this specific case, the EU is more likely to be the type of organization that would think about how to create a unified permit

-> as they did with the EU Digital COVID certificate; some sort of "I am in the register of mobilization" / "have a temporary travel authorization".

So, EU might be an enemy that pretends to be your friend there.

lrasinen2mo ago

Humbug. Defence policy, especially how the EU member states choose to organize their military forces, is very much in the hands of the individual countries. A majority of the member states don't even have conscription anymore.

Yes, there is the common security and defence policy, and the Article 42 of Lisbon and all that, but it all still relies on national systems.

mytailorisrich2mo ago

That's interesting because on the face of it this none of the EU's business... but also typical of the EU and EU governments to expand what is thr EU's business little by little.

QuantumNomad_2mo ago

The whole existence of the EU has its background in the end of WWII.

> 18 April 1951 – European Coal and Steel Community

> Based on the Schuman plan, six countries sign a treaty to run their coal and steel industries under a common management. In this way, no single country can make the weapons of war to turn against others, as in the past. The six are Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg. The European Coal and Steel Community comes into being in 1952.

https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-histor...

Why wouldn’t a unified permit to prove you registered for mobilization be relevant to what the EU is for?

1 more reply

tokai2mo ago

Don't post made up lies here.

rvnx2mo ago

https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/eu-defence-indus...

There is a new military Schengen project to make troops and unified military documentation across whole EU.

Obviously there will need to be a registry of personnel there, so these people can be prevented to leave.

On the side you have SIS Schengen, where you can (already) have an active arrest warrant for desertion.

Nothing indicates that European Union is going to fight against such registries. It's even the opposite.

1 more reply

PeterStuer2mo ago· 2 in thread

Not sure about constitution, but it is clearly discrimination based on sex, which violates plenty of EU laws and regulations.

AdrianB12mo ago

Some countries in the EU, like mine, have funny discrimination laws that say a positive discrimination is not considered a discrimination under the law, so it cannot be challenged. It is used as the basis for all women-favoring regulations.

134152mo ago

Such laws are unconstitutional in Germany. I'd be interested in which country you live in and an example of such a law.

1 more reply

lrasinen2mo ago

If there were one. The closest thing is the Treaty of Lisbon, which in turn was an update on the Treaties of Maastricht and Rome.

However, the matter has been heard in the European Court of Justice in 2002, and the short version is "Community law does not preclude compulsory military service being reserved to men."

For more details, feel free to study the legal opinion behind the ruling: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

fabian2k2mo ago

It probably could be challenged under the German constitution, but nobody knows if that would be successful. The draft for men is set up in the constitution, but there is also an explicit equality for men and women in there. In the past any challenge would almost certainly have been denied, but it's a different time now.

In practice, this draft is not a real draft yet. Nobody is actually drafted, so there are almost no practical consequences. If there was an actual draft, I'd expect to see a challenge to this.

mppm2mo ago

Theoretically yes, practically no. The ECJ can order the revision of national laws, but the country in question is responsible for implementation, and can send plaintiffs on a multi-decade merry chase. Several countries have also taken the view that they can refuse changes to their constitutions. This stands on shaky ground legally, but there is no real enforcement mechanism anyway.

Krasnol2mo ago

I wonder why it is so trendy to want that.

Yeah, the law is unjust but spare even this part of the population this unnecessary risk. It's not like they can't join if they want to but why put force on it? So everybody feels miserable? What's the point?

And yeah, ich habe treu und tapfer verteidigt...

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

13 comments · 6 top-level

rvnx2mo ago· 5 in thread

I wouldn't trust the European Union to be the one that will challenge that German mobilization register at all.

COVID-19 has proven that if anything, the European Union tends to spread national initiatives among other countries (and Germany is often a leader in EU).

In this specific case, the EU is more likely to be the type of organization that would think about how to create a unified permit

-> as they did with the EU Digital COVID certificate; some sort of "I am in the register of mobilization" / "have a temporary travel authorization".

So, EU might be an enemy that pretends to be your friend there.

lrasinen2mo ago

Yes, there is the common security and defence policy, and the Article 42 of Lisbon and all that, but it all still relies on national systems.

mytailorisrich2mo ago

That's interesting because on the face of it this none of the EU's business... but also typical of the EU and EU governments to expand what is thr EU's business little by little.

QuantumNomad_2mo ago

The whole existence of the EU has its background in the end of WWII.

> 18 April 1951 – European Coal and Steel Community

https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-histor...

Why wouldn’t a unified permit to prove you registered for mobilization be relevant to what the EU is for?

1 more reply

tokai2mo ago

Don't post made up lies here.

rvnx2mo ago

https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/eu-defence-indus...

There is a new military Schengen project to make troops and unified military documentation across whole EU.

Obviously there will need to be a registry of personnel there, so these people can be prevented to leave.

On the side you have SIS Schengen, where you can (already) have an active arrest warrant for desertion.

Nothing indicates that European Union is going to fight against such registries. It's even the opposite.

1 more reply

PeterStuer2mo ago· 2 in thread

Not sure about constitution, but it is clearly discrimination based on sex, which violates plenty of EU laws and regulations.

AdrianB12mo ago

134152mo ago

Such laws are unconstitutional in Germany. I'd be interested in which country you live in and an example of such a law.

1 more reply

lrasinen2mo ago

If there were one. The closest thing is the Treaty of Lisbon, which in turn was an update on the Treaties of Maastricht and Rome.

However, the matter has been heard in the European Court of Justice in 2002, and the short version is "Community law does not preclude compulsory military service being reserved to men."

For more details, feel free to study the legal opinion behind the ruling: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

fabian2k2mo ago

In practice, this draft is not a real draft yet. Nobody is actually drafted, so there are almost no practical consequences. If there was an actual draft, I'd expect to see a challenge to this.

mppm2mo ago

Krasnol2mo ago

I wonder why it is so trendy to want that.

And yeah, ich habe treu und tapfer verteidigt...

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse