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0 pointsalephnerd2mo ago0 comments

> If you allow fuel tankers supporting such aircraft in your airspace, you are almost certainly a combatant. If you let surveillance planes from one party to fly through your airspace while supporting offensive operations, you are probably a combatant.

This is not the norm for a definition of a combatant, and if we adopt the norm Iran has created, then we have to accept that in reality the US and EU have been at war with Russia, Iran, and North Korea since 2022 as the US and EU provide targeting intel and resupply munitions for Ukraine and Iran+NK provide lethal munitions and boots on the ground to Russia for their war in Ukraine.

Edit: cannot reply

> because the attacks do not take place from US and EU territory, but all from Ukrainian territory

This is not the justification Iran is using, as has been seen with the standards they are using with regards to Ukraine [0].

Iran has made a foreign policy decision that any nation that provides dual use, lethal, or defensive capabilities against Iran makes them an active combatant.

It is this implication that is so destabilizing globally.

Compartmentalization of foreign relations and not treating dual use technologies as implying directly aiding in combat are sacrosanct becuase the alternative means total war.

Or, becuase you are Dutch, let me put it this way - if Iran is justified in striking Emirati G42's dual use civilian assets for aiding and abetting the US, then Russia has the precedent to strike the Netherlands for directly aiding and abetting Ukraine's lethal offensive capabilities via dual use technology transfers and fundraising [1].

And if we accept Iran's position to be correct (which I do not think it is), then all of NATO has already been in a state of war with Iran since 2022 when Iran began deploying IRGC boots in Crimea [2] to conduct drone strikes on Ukraine.

[0] - https://www.kyivpost.com/post/72965

[1] - https://www.dutchdefencecluster.com/

[2] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/24/iranian-milita...

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2 comments · 2 top-level

jltsiren2mo ago

> This is not the norm for a definition of a combatant, and if we adopt the norm Iran has created, then we have to accept that in reality the US and EU have been at war with Russia, Iran, and North Korea since 2022 as the US and EU provide targeting intel and resupply munitions for Ukraine and Iran+NK provide lethal munitions and boots on the ground to Russia for their war in Ukraine.

There are no definitions, only established usage. It has been well established, most recently in the Ukraine war, that intelligence and material support do not mean direct involvement in a war. Assassinations, cyberattacks, and sabotage are also allowed to some extent.

Active involvement in combat operations is another story. You can't make your troops immune to counterattacks by placing them in a third country that is nominally neutral. If they are actively involved in the war, they are a legitimate target, as is the infrastructure supporting them.

There is no exact definition of what counts as active involvement. Not the least because wars tend to be situations, where everyone is acting in bad faith.

jacquesm2mo ago

Not really, because the attacks do not take place from US and EU territory, but all from Ukrainian territory. And they are very careful about never so much as giving the impression that this is not the case.