undefined | Better HN

0 pointsSunshineTheCat2mo ago0 comments

I think this is true, however, when it comes to non-coding clients I've worked with they really do like the ability to make minor edits to a site with a UI rather than having to continually ping a developer.

The problem with WordPress (and it looks like this solution largely just replicated the problem) is that it's way too cumbersome and bloated.

It really is unlike any modern UI for really any SaaS or software in general.

It's filled with meaningless admin notices, the sidebar is 5 miles long and about 98% of what the user sees is meaningless to them.

Creating a very lightweight, minimal UI for the client to edit exactly what they need or like you said, just static files really is the best solution in most cases. The "page builders" always just turn into a nightmare the clients end up handing over for a dev to "fix" anyways.

Not sure why so many people feel the need to continue on the decades of bloat and cruft WordPress has accumulated, even if it's "modernized."

0 comments

7 comments · 3 top-level

yurishimo2mo ago· 2 in thread

There are two types of WordPress sites from my perspective as someone who got their start in webdev in that ecosystem.

The first and arguably largest is exactly what you describe. Little sites for small businesses who just want an online presence and maybe to facilitate some light duty business development with a small webshop or forum. These sites are done by fly by night marketers who are also hawking SEO optimization and ads on Facebook and they’ll host your site for the low low price of $100/mo while dodging your phone calls when the godaddy $5/mo plan they are actually hosting your site on shits the bed.

The second, and more influential group of WordPress users, are very large organizations who publish a lot of content and need something that is flexible, reasonably scalable and cheap to hire developers for. Universities love WP because they can setup multisite and give every student in every class a website with some basic plugins and then it’s handsoff. Go look at the logo list for WordPress VIP to see what media organizations are powered by WP. Legit newsrooms run on mostly stock WP backends but with their own designers and some custom publishing workflows.

These two market segments are so far apart though that it creates a lot of division and friction from lots of different angles. Do you cater to the small businesses and just accept that they’ll outgrow the platform someday? Or do you build stuff that makes the big publishers happy because the pay for most of the engineering talent working on the open source project more generally? And all that while maintaining backwards compatibility and somewhat trying to keep up with modern-ish practices (they did adopt React after all).

WordPress is weird and in no way a monoculture is what I guess I’m trying to say.

transcriptase2mo ago

I have no idea if it’s still true but it used to be the case that you had 3 choices with a Wordpress install and even a couple plugins:

1) Have a part time job updating it and plugins, making sure you weren’t introducing vulns at every step

2) Leave it as is and hope that no vulns are discovered for your particular version or plugin versions

3) Have things auto-update and pray that your plugins don't get sold or compromised and backdoor your site

wolrah2mo ago

4) Don't use a stack of plugins, if you must use any keep them as dumb as possible and stick to those with a longstanding reputation.

A basic instance, set to auto-update, installed on a shared webhost where OS/web server updates are someone else's problem is pretty foolproof. A VPS running a long-term distro set to auto update is almost as good.

---

That said I personally dropped Wordpress for static site generation years ago because I realized I didn't actually need any of the dynamic features and wasn't using the WYSIWYG editor. Now I write Markdown in to a file in a git repo and then trigger a regeneration whenever I update it.

1 more reply

pilgrim02mo ago· 2 in thread

I hated Wordpress so much that when the clients wanted an admin dashboard I used a neat PHP CMS called Kirby. It was awesome back then! So simple

ehnto2mo ago

I wrote my own CMS, as the core WordPress functionality wasn't too much to replicate.

But eventually the WordPress ecosystem was too strong, and the real value proposition was plugins and familiarity. That continues to be true to this day, which is why no CMS has de-throned WordPress in spite of significantly better UX, architecture and developer experience. None of it matters when the client has a suite of plugins they have been using for 10+ years, that are now core to their business.

manuelmoreale2mo ago

It was awesome back then and it's even more awesome now: https://getkirby.com And there's a V6 in the making that should come out soon.

riffraff2mo ago

Are you sure the admin notices and sidebar are not plugin issues?

I use Wordpress for my blog because I stopped caring about maintaining one, and I'm mildly confident wp will be around for 10 more years.

There are basically no notices and the admin sidebar is ~10 obvious entries (home, posts, pages, comments, appearance, settings etc).

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse