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0 pointsalephnerd2mo ago0 comments

> More victims of AI

According to the article as well as blind, the main teams hit were associated with Cerner (EHR) and NetSuite (ERP).

Oracle's AI spend is part of Oracle Cloud.

That said, I guess it can be argued that Cerner and NetSuite being on the chopping block can be attributed to AI because now procurement has the choice to either build in-house via an Anthropic or OpenAI SI like Accenture or TCS or they can negotiate better purchasing terms from a best-in-breed product in HRM and ERP like SAP instead.

I also find it interesting how American and European HNers are much more negative about AI compared to their Chinese, Indian, and Israeli peers even though they have a significant amount to lose as well.

0 comments

10 comments · 2 top-level

lenerdenator2mo ago· 4 in thread

> That said, I guess it can be argued that Cerner and NetSuite being on the chopping block can be attributed to AI because now procurement has the choice to either build in-house via an Anthropic or OpenAI SI like Accenture or TCS or they can negotiate better purchasing terms from a best-in-breed product in HRM and ERP like SAP instead.

Cerner isn't an EHR, it's an EMR. EHR == Electronic Health Record. Your FitBit data is an Electronic Health Record. EMR == Electronic Medical Record. Your doctor's records, how much blood thinner that nurse is supposed to give grandpa, and whether or not he's a fall risk are things you'd put in an EMR.

You can't just vibecode your way to replacing an EMR. Cerner Millennium has a shrinking, but substantial, footprint at healthcare systems across the country and around the globe. There are 25+ years of bugfixes, caveats, architecture, and other pieces of knowledge to be tracked and accounted for, and you must do so, because if you don't, people under the care of doctors could die.

It's also worth noting that the DoD uses Millennium for active service members, and I think they also use it for TriCare. American taxpayers are on the hook for dealing with the problems that Oracle's cost cuts will produce.

alephnerdOP2mo ago

> You can't just vibecode your way to replacing an (sic) EMR

Absolutely, but you can now demand a market leader like Epic to give you a significantly better discount (eg. 20-30% over the 10% you may have previously been offered).

And that is the crux of the "SaaSpocalypse" and why you are seeing targeted layoffs in Oracle specifically for their ERP and EHR products.

> It's also worth noting that the DoD uses Millennium for active service members, and I think they also use it for TriCare. American taxpayers are on the hook for dealing with the problems that Oracle's cost cuts will produce

Absolutely, but they were already on the hook for that before Cerner became a part of Oracle.

lenerdenator2mo ago

> Absolutely, but you can now demand a market leader like Epic to give you a significantly better discount (eg. 20-30% over the 10% you may have previously been offered).

Is this on the grounds that you can do it yourself?

1 more reply

mzl2mo ago

There was an interesting scandal in Sweden where Oracle managed to sell the Millenium system to a regions hospitals even though they did not fulfill the requirements, and then when it inevitably crashed and burned they had to do an emergency rollback to the previous system after just a few days.

Here is an article in English: https://www.heise.de/en/news/Scrapping-the-millennium-introd...

shigawire2mo ago

Minor nit - enterprise EMRs brand themselves as EHR because they consider it more encompassing than just medical records.

I agree on other points.

SlinkyOnStairs2mo ago· 4 in thread

alephnerdOP2mo ago

That isn't though.

Both Cerner (EHR) and NetSuite (ERP) were laggards in their market segments for years.

If I'm the Director of Enterprise Applications and have a budget allocated to procurement, I have no reason to purchase a laggard product like Cerner or NetSuite even with the Oracle bundle when SAP is giving significant discounts because OpenAI, Anthropic, and GCP are offering partnerships with systems integrations like Accenture or Deloitte to fully build out and manage your own hyperspecific ERP or EHR.

There's no reason to keep investing in products in a market that was already past it's growth stage pre-AI with a clear market winner, especially now that there is downstream pressure that makes build much more attractive than buying an inferior product.

Based on your response, I doubt you even cared to read my entire post.

Edit: can't reply

> I didn't read it because it didn't exist yet, you added it in an edit

It did when I posted. The only edit I made after you posted was fixing HRM to EHR.

> You're not even disagreeing with my response, merely elaborating the mechanism behind it. This is bad faith posting.

I strongly disagree. My entire thesis is that Cerner and NetSuite were bad businesses. If a business is bad you kill the business.

No need to gaslight me and delete your response.

rus203762mo ago

Anyone with even a passing familiarity with EHR systems will know that nobody wants to build their own. I once worked for a large hospital system that abandoned a decades old institutionally built and maintained system for Epic. The choice was celebrated by almost everyone who worked there.

The value is in the “system” itself. The tooling, plugins, knowledge that your staff has the familiarity and skills so as to not require retraining, the interoperability of data with other systems and vendors.

The idea that AI is going to enable a variety of bespoke competitors is truly laughable!

SlinkyOnStairs2mo ago

> Based on your response, I doubt you even cared to read my entire post.

I didn't read it because it didn't exist yet, you added it in an edit.

You're not even disagreeing with my response, merely elaborating the mechanism behind it. This is bad faith posting.

porridgeraisin2mo ago

In india, most of the firings happened in OFSS, Database and OCI.

That seems to be a bit of contradiction to your thesis no? OCI is their golden goose now for example.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

10 comments · 2 top-level

lenerdenator2mo ago· 4 in thread

alephnerdOP2mo ago

> You can't just vibecode your way to replacing an (sic) EMR

Absolutely, but you can now demand a market leader like Epic to give you a significantly better discount (eg. 20-30% over the 10% you may have previously been offered).

And that is the crux of the "SaaSpocalypse" and why you are seeing targeted layoffs in Oracle specifically for their ERP and EHR products.

Absolutely, but they were already on the hook for that before Cerner became a part of Oracle.

lenerdenator2mo ago

> Absolutely, but you can now demand a market leader like Epic to give you a significantly better discount (eg. 20-30% over the 10% you may have previously been offered).

Is this on the grounds that you can do it yourself?

1 more reply

mzl2mo ago

Here is an article in English: https://www.heise.de/en/news/Scrapping-the-millennium-introd...

shigawire2mo ago

Minor nit - enterprise EMRs brand themselves as EHR because they consider it more encompassing than just medical records.

I agree on other points.

SlinkyOnStairs2mo ago· 4 in thread

alephnerdOP2mo ago

That isn't though.

Both Cerner (EHR) and NetSuite (ERP) were laggards in their market segments for years.

Based on your response, I doubt you even cared to read my entire post.

Edit: can't reply

> I didn't read it because it didn't exist yet, you added it in an edit

It did when I posted. The only edit I made after you posted was fixing HRM to EHR.

> You're not even disagreeing with my response, merely elaborating the mechanism behind it. This is bad faith posting.

I strongly disagree. My entire thesis is that Cerner and NetSuite were bad businesses. If a business is bad you kill the business.

No need to gaslight me and delete your response.

rus203762mo ago

The idea that AI is going to enable a variety of bespoke competitors is truly laughable!

SlinkyOnStairs2mo ago

> Based on your response, I doubt you even cared to read my entire post.

I didn't read it because it didn't exist yet, you added it in an edit.

You're not even disagreeing with my response, merely elaborating the mechanism behind it. This is bad faith posting.

porridgeraisin2mo ago

In india, most of the firings happened in OFSS, Database and OCI.

That seems to be a bit of contradiction to your thesis no? OCI is their golden goose now for example.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse