undefined | Better HN

0 pointsfc417fc8021mo ago0 comments

> Using charm and calculated moves to influence others isn’t a bad thing. It’s the basis of flattery.

Flattery doesn't have to be calculated.

As to calculated moves, distinct things can fit the same labels. Intent, context, and execution are all important.

0 comments

I would argue that flattery without calculation is just poorly calculated flattery.

Same applies to many other traits in the list. Low achievements people lie right and left just as well. Are cynical when convenient, yada yada.

Basically, the list says that these 30s are just like an average Joe, but smart. Which should be a surprise to no one.

estearum1mo ago

No, because smart people realize they are playing an iterated game and that behaving in a way that people identify as Machiavellian is actually suboptimal in the long run.

So they're smart enough to be calculated and stupid enough not to be so calculated that they look untrustworthy.

lostmsu1mo ago

> No, because smart people realize they are playing an iterated game and that behaving in a way that people identify as Machiavellian is actually suboptimal in the long run.

Even if you are right coincidentally (which I wouldn't be so sure about), that's still poor argument assuming you realize your belief in what optimal strategy is what it is - just an educated guess.

estearum1mo ago

Why does that matter?

fc417fc802OP1mo ago

They're only the same thing if you ignore intent.

Not everyone lies or is cynical when convenient. Skill, rate of success, and personal ethics are all orthogonal concepts.

Above all, intent matters. I do not treat someone who I perceive to be manipulative the same as I would other people.

lostmsu1mo ago

> all orthogonal concepts

That's my point exactly. I just also assume the % of liars in 30s is the same as in general population by default.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

lostmsu1mo ago

I would argue that flattery without calculation is just poorly calculated flattery.

Same applies to many other traits in the list. Low achievements people lie right and left just as well. Are cynical when convenient, yada yada.

Basically, the list says that these 30s are just like an average Joe, but smart. Which should be a surprise to no one.

estearum1mo ago

No, because smart people realize they are playing an iterated game and that behaving in a way that people identify as Machiavellian is actually suboptimal in the long run.

So they're smart enough to be calculated and stupid enough not to be so calculated that they look untrustworthy.

lostmsu1mo ago

> No, because smart people realize they are playing an iterated game and that behaving in a way that people identify as Machiavellian is actually suboptimal in the long run.

estearum1mo ago

Why does that matter?

fc417fc802OP1mo ago

They're only the same thing if you ignore intent.

Not everyone lies or is cynical when convenient. Skill, rate of success, and personal ethics are all orthogonal concepts.

Above all, intent matters. I do not treat someone who I perceive to be manipulative the same as I would other people.

lostmsu1mo ago

> all orthogonal concepts

That's my point exactly. I just also assume the % of liars in 30s is the same as in general population by default.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse