Teenage Engineering's PO-32 acoustic modem and synth implementation (opens in new tab)

(github.com)

148 pointsericlewis1mo ago36 comments

36 comments

Digital modules from Mutable Instruments (and related clones + offshoots) use audio-based data transfer for firmware updates.

Interesting way to give the consumer the ability to change the firmware without having to access the back of the module (there's a way to use a serial JTAG adapter as well).

https://github.com/pichenettes/mutable-dev-environment?tab=r...

scarecrowbob1mo ago

As I understand it, transferring data as audio goes back quite ways, right?

I had a Commodore 64 that could use phillips tape. I'm drawing. blank, but IIRC there were musical instruments (maybe the roland juno 60?) in the 80s that were storing their data as audio, too.

Cthulhu_1mo ago

Yus, apparently some software was broadcast on the radio, people could record it on tape and use it on their Commodore and such.

scarecrowbob1mo ago

Heck, my computer used to get on the land line telephone and ask its friends for software.

One of the weirdest things I did last week was realizing that my flipper zero could be used as a redbox... now I just need to find a payphone with a trunk...

spogbiper1mo ago

also distributed on thin records inserted into computer magazines

https://obsoletemedia.org/floppy-rom/

lintbrush1mo ago

Yep, that's correct about the Juno 60. There are people still sharing WAV files of the original factory patches which is cool to be able to re-load now and again.

somat1mo ago

Here, this is a lot of fun.

http://www.whence.com/minimodem/

scarecrowbob1mo ago

I mean, I'm thinking about upgrading from my tech license so I can start playing with digital modes on HF radio...

damn, this thread is making me feel old...

duped1mo ago

Disney used it to control their animatronics for many years (aka, "audio animatronics")

bobmcnamara1mo ago

Kansas City Standard was delivered on cheap records through the mail

jvoorhis1mo ago

Yeah, Juno-106 as well.

jasomill1mo ago

On a similar if sillier note note, Korg made a Hatsune Miku guitar effect[1] that was programmable through audio sent from an iPhone app through the guitar pickup.

Annoyingly, the free app isn't available on the US App Store, so open source software would be useful (insofar as the ability to play back a predefined sequence of Vocaloid phonemes using an electric guitar is useful).

[1] https://www.korg.com/us/products/effects/mikustomp/

unixnight1mo ago

I have been on the hunt for this pedal, and it is now stupidly expensive. I hope they rerelease it one of these days

socks1mo ago

Hey ericlewis - this is cool! Can I ask how you figured it out?! Doing this for my PO-33 was on my bucket list. I thought I might have to resort to voltage glitching to get a firmware dump, which is currently beyond my skills.

svantana1mo ago

Unfortunately I think only a few of the PO's support this transfer method, and I don't think the 33 is one of them. They were never meant to be updated at all, as I understand it.

ericlewisOP1mo ago

much simpler, just pull apart the MT VST :P

I am working on PO-33, doing EMFI.

chr15m1mo ago

Me too, have been trying to crack this for so long!

reerdna1mo ago

I was able to get part way some years ago by demodulating the bitstream with gnuradio and then making small changes (like replacing one note with the next higher one) and noting the differences. So that is one possible, but probably too inefficient way.

I never got close to finishing or publishing anything. Awesome to see this released and I'll have to play with it!

gxd1mo ago

This reminded me of when people used to transfer games over the radio: https://www.racunalniski-muzej.si/en/40-years-later-a-game-f...

c-c-c-c-c1mo ago

> A user you’ve blocked has previously contributed to this repository.

I see that claude’s been in here as well.

kmeisthax1mo ago

> The PO-32 is not receiving finished drum audio when you transfer a sound or a pattern. It receives structured data:

Wait, isn't this what MIDI is for?

Elidrake241mo ago

Sure, but being able to share the 'data dump' at the end of a Youtube Video is so much more fun/likely to be used.

https://youtu.be/TLzAyouLQxw?si=mm6goX-cMyEZkwOI&t=102

itishappy1mo ago

It's sending sound parameter information (e.g. filter cutoff at 12khz, resonance at 1.6, Q of 0.89) along with note information (e.g. start playing note A4 with velocity 80). You could absolutely use a MIDI CC channel to convey this information. The OP-32 chooses a different route and encodes this into an audio signal so that it can transmit it over the air using the speaker/mic instead of a wireless stack.

I bet it sounds like a dial-up tone!

txbrown1mo ago

Would have been easier to say it receives patches - I think most people would get this.

Intermernet1mo ago

The word "patch" has a naming conflict between the disciplines of synthesizers and software.

txbrown1mo ago

what you mean? synthesisers are software... I think the context is clear here and we're talking about software made for music, so the usage of patch is accurate. If author wanted to use "patch" to mean patching a file they would likely be specific or context could be inferred.

"A patch is data for modifying an existing software resource such as a program or a file"

Which is what patching synths/drum machines (and files) does.

1 more reply

iamjackg1mo ago

All it means is that the PO-32 is not a sampler, it's a synthesizer, so it receives a "preset" for the synth rather than an audio sample.

Lio1mo ago

> Wait, isn't this what MIDI is for?

It is but I don’t think this Pocket Operator has MIDI without adding third party hardware.

nosrepa1mo ago

I didn't think I'd see something on the PD squad before I saw it on HN!

larme1mo ago

That's amazing. I wonder how accurate is the synth engine?

smlacy1mo ago

The synth engine is an implementation of https://soniccharge.com/microtonic Not sure what "accurate" means in your context though?

girvo1mo ago

How closely it replicates microtonic's, would be my assumption

PunchyHamster1mo ago

Looking at this I can only think one thing: "Just put USB-C in, the connector is ten cents and it's far more convenient than hipster shit like this, you pretentious fucks"

mobiledev20141mo ago

This was released in 2017 for one thing. Considering that enough people are still interested in it a decade later they probably did something right.

Gigachad1mo ago

Pretentious hipster shit is their whole brand.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

36 comments

chabes1mo ago

Digital modules from Mutable Instruments (and related clones + offshoots) use audio-based data transfer for firmware updates.

Interesting way to give the consumer the ability to change the firmware without having to access the back of the module (there's a way to use a serial JTAG adapter as well).

https://github.com/pichenettes/mutable-dev-environment?tab=r...

scarecrowbob1mo ago

As I understand it, transferring data as audio goes back quite ways, right?

I had a Commodore 64 that could use phillips tape. I'm drawing. blank, but IIRC there were musical instruments (maybe the roland juno 60?) in the 80s that were storing their data as audio, too.

Cthulhu_1mo ago

Yus, apparently some software was broadcast on the radio, people could record it on tape and use it on their Commodore and such.

scarecrowbob1mo ago

Heck, my computer used to get on the land line telephone and ask its friends for software.

One of the weirdest things I did last week was realizing that my flipper zero could be used as a redbox... now I just need to find a payphone with a trunk...

spogbiper1mo ago

also distributed on thin records inserted into computer magazines

https://obsoletemedia.org/floppy-rom/

lintbrush1mo ago

Yep, that's correct about the Juno 60. There are people still sharing WAV files of the original factory patches which is cool to be able to re-load now and again.

somat1mo ago

Here, this is a lot of fun.

http://www.whence.com/minimodem/

scarecrowbob1mo ago

I mean, I'm thinking about upgrading from my tech license so I can start playing with digital modes on HF radio...

damn, this thread is making me feel old...

duped1mo ago

Disney used it to control their animatronics for many years (aka, "audio animatronics")

bobmcnamara1mo ago

Kansas City Standard was delivered on cheap records through the mail

jvoorhis1mo ago

Yeah, Juno-106 as well.

jasomill1mo ago

On a similar if sillier note note, Korg made a Hatsune Miku guitar effect[1] that was programmable through audio sent from an iPhone app through the guitar pickup.

[1] https://www.korg.com/us/products/effects/mikustomp/

unixnight1mo ago

I have been on the hunt for this pedal, and it is now stupidly expensive. I hope they rerelease it one of these days

socks1mo ago

svantana1mo ago

Unfortunately I think only a few of the PO's support this transfer method, and I don't think the 33 is one of them. They were never meant to be updated at all, as I understand it.

ericlewisOP1mo ago

much simpler, just pull apart the MT VST :P

I am working on PO-33, doing EMFI.

chr15m1mo ago

Me too, have been trying to crack this for so long!

reerdna1mo ago

I never got close to finishing or publishing anything. Awesome to see this released and I'll have to play with it!

gxd1mo ago

This reminded me of when people used to transfer games over the radio: https://www.racunalniski-muzej.si/en/40-years-later-a-game-f...

c-c-c-c-c1mo ago

> A user you’ve blocked has previously contributed to this repository.

I see that claude’s been in here as well.

kmeisthax1mo ago

> The PO-32 is not receiving finished drum audio when you transfer a sound or a pattern. It receives structured data:

Wait, isn't this what MIDI is for?

Elidrake241mo ago

Sure, but being able to share the 'data dump' at the end of a Youtube Video is so much more fun/likely to be used.

https://youtu.be/TLzAyouLQxw?si=mm6goX-cMyEZkwOI&t=102

itishappy1mo ago

I bet it sounds like a dial-up tone!

txbrown1mo ago

Would have been easier to say it receives patches - I think most people would get this.

Intermernet1mo ago

The word "patch" has a naming conflict between the disciplines of synthesizers and software.

txbrown1mo ago

"A patch is data for modifying an existing software resource such as a program or a file"

Which is what patching synths/drum machines (and files) does.

1 more reply

iamjackg1mo ago

All it means is that the PO-32 is not a sampler, it's a synthesizer, so it receives a "preset" for the synth rather than an audio sample.

Lio1mo ago

> Wait, isn't this what MIDI is for?

It is but I don’t think this Pocket Operator has MIDI without adding third party hardware.

nosrepa1mo ago

I didn't think I'd see something on the PD squad before I saw it on HN!

larme1mo ago

That's amazing. I wonder how accurate is the synth engine?

smlacy1mo ago

The synth engine is an implementation of https://soniccharge.com/microtonic Not sure what "accurate" means in your context though?

girvo1mo ago

How closely it replicates microtonic's, would be my assumption

PunchyHamster1mo ago

Looking at this I can only think one thing: "Just put USB-C in, the connector is ten cents and it's far more convenient than hipster shit like this, you pretentious fucks"

mobiledev20141mo ago

This was released in 2017 for one thing. Considering that enough people are still interested in it a decade later they probably did something right.

Gigachad1mo ago

Pretentious hipster shit is their whole brand.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse