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0 pointsvintagedave1d ago0 comments

This must be super stressful for you, but I do want to note your "I'm sorry for this." It's really human.

It is so much better than, you know... "We regret any inconvenience and remain committed to recognising the importance of maintaining trust with our valued community and following the duration of the ongoing transient issue we will continue to drive alignment on a comprehensive remediation framework going forward."

Kudos to you. Stressful times, but I hope it helps to know that people are reading this appreciating the response.

0 comments

nextos1d ago

I think we really need to use sandboxes. Guix provides sandboxed environments by just flipping a switch. NixOS is in an ideal position to do the same, but for some reason they are regarded as "inconvenient".

Personally, I am a heavy user of Firejail and bwrap. We need defense in depth. If someone in the supply chain gets compromised, damage should be limited. It's easy to patch the security model of Linux with userspaces, and even easier with eBPF, but the community is somehow stuck.

staticassertion1d ago

What would be really helpful is if software sandboxed itself. It's very painful to sandbox software from the outside and it's radically less effective because your sandbox is always maximally permissive.

But, sadly, there's no x-platform way to do this, and sandboxing APIs are incredibly bad still and often require privileges.

> It's easy to patch the security model of Linux with userspaces, and even easier with eBPF, but the community is somehow stuck.

Neither of these is easy tbh. Entering a Linux namespace requires root, so if you want your users to be safe then you have to first ask them to run your service as root. eBPF is a very hard boundary to maintain, requiring you to know every system call that your program can make - updates to libc, upgrades to any library, can break this.

Sandboxing tooling is really bad.

eichin1d ago

If the whole point of sandboxing is to not trust the software, it doesn't make sense for the software to do the sandboxing. (At most it should have a standard way to suggest what access it needs, and then your outside tooling should work with what's reasonable and alert on what isn't.) The android-like approach of sandboxing literally everything works because you are forced to solve these problems generically and at scale - things like "run this as a distinct uid" are a lot less hassle if you're amortizing it across everything.

(And no, most linux namespace stuff does not require root, the few things that do can be provided in more-controlled ways. For examples, look at podman, not docker.)

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ashishb1d ago

> It's very painful to sandbox software from the outside and it's radically less effective because your sandbox is always maximally permissive.

Not really.

Let's say I am running `~/src/project1 $ litellm`

Why does this need access to anything outside of `~/src/project1`?

Even if it does, you should expose exactly those particular directories (e.g. ~/.config) and nothing else.

1 more reply

ashishb1d ago

I am happily running all third-party tools inside the Amazing Sandbox[1]. I made it public last year.

1 - https://github.com/ashishb/amazing-sandbox

cyanydeez1d ago

Lawyers are slowly eating humanity.

bmurphy19761d ago

For now. They're about to get hit by the AI wave as bad as us software devs. Who knows what's on the other side of this.

blueone1d ago

Sorry that I have to be the one to tell you this, but lawyers are fine. Sure, AI will have an impact, but nothing like the once hyped idea that it would replace lawyers. It has actually been amusing to watch the hype cycle play out around AI when it comes to lawyers.

2 more replies

singleshot_1d ago

Allegedly*

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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nextos1d ago

staticassertion1d ago

But, sadly, there's no x-platform way to do this, and sandboxing APIs are incredibly bad still and often require privileges.

> It's easy to patch the security model of Linux with userspaces, and even easier with eBPF, but the community is somehow stuck.

Sandboxing tooling is really bad.

eichin1d ago

(And no, most linux namespace stuff does not require root, the few things that do can be provided in more-controlled ways. For examples, look at podman, not docker.)

1 more reply

ashishb1d ago

> It's very painful to sandbox software from the outside and it's radically less effective because your sandbox is always maximally permissive.

Not really.

Let's say I am running `~/src/project1 $ litellm`

Why does this need access to anything outside of `~/src/project1`?

Even if it does, you should expose exactly those particular directories (e.g. ~/.config) and nothing else.

1 more reply

ashishb1d ago

I am happily running all third-party tools inside the Amazing Sandbox[1]. I made it public last year.

1 - https://github.com/ashishb/amazing-sandbox

cyanydeez1d ago

Lawyers are slowly eating humanity.

bmurphy19761d ago

For now. They're about to get hit by the AI wave as bad as us software devs. Who knows what's on the other side of this.

blueone1d ago

2 more replies

singleshot_1d ago

Allegedly*

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse