I think they probably acquire it in accordance with Chinese law.
> but I don't think the US "started it" to be fair.
Who are you quoting with those marks? Started what? To be fair to whom?
You can easily look up[1] how China struggles with effective enforcement of IP laws.
And specifically for LLMs, Anthropic recently claimed that Chinese models trained on it without permission.[2]
> Who are you quoting with those marks?
Double quote marks have other uses besides direct quotes, such as signaling unusual usage.[3] In this case, talking about countries like they're squabbling kids.
> Started what?
Fishy use of others' IP, packaging others' work without attribution.
> To be fair to whom?
To US companies using Chinese LLMs without attribution.
---
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_intellectual_pr...
[2]: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinese-companies-used-c...
[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_marks_in_English#Sig...
As to what Anthropic said, it's quite specious as this analysis shows [1], ie the amount of "exchanges" is only tantamount to a single day or two of promoting, not nearly enough to actually get good RL training data from. Regardless, it's not as if other American LLM companies obtained training data legitimately, whatever that means in today's world.
[0] https://theworld.org/stories/2014/02/18/us-complains-other-n...
> Despite making efforts in intellectual property protection in China, a major obstacle in prosecution is corruption in courts; local protectionism and political influence prohibits effective enforcement of intellectual property laws. To help overcome local corruption, China established specialized IP courts and sharply increased financial penalties.
> all nations in the history of mankind have been "stealing" "intellectual property" since forever
You can't use 100-400 years ago as the counterexample to what happens today. It's like justifying Russian invasion of Ukraine with colonists invading Native American territories. We're in a different world order, things that were normalized that far back shouldn't be normalized today.
That doesn't sound like struggling to me.
https://www.matec-conferences.org/articles/matecconf/pdf/201...
Compare with the growth in cases in the US:
https://www.uscourts.gov/data-news/judiciary-news/2020/02/13...
Why is it China increasing cases is evidence of struggling to you? Do you think the US is also struggling? What exactly are you talking about?
> You can't use 100-400 years ago as the counterexample to what happens today.
The US joined the Berne convention in 1988. I do not think we are talking about 400 years ago, but we're talking about the majority of the US history, having law that it was okay to ignore copyrights of the rest of the world.
> It's like justifying Russian invasion of Ukraine with colonists invading Native American territories
I don't agree: One can also mean that there is no justification for the invasion of the Ukraine just like there was no justification for invading American territories.
Human nature is the same in any time period, there is no "normalization" at all, it's just how humans have always and will always continue to act, even today, with the world order currently breaking down.
Or just a year or two ago?
> https://www.npr.org/2025/09/05/nx-s1-5529404/anthropic-settl...
I didn't see anything in there about Chinese companies violating Chinese law.
Can you so easily look up how American companies struggle with effective enforcement of Chinese IP laws? I think it should be pretty easy to see how American companies struggle with effective enforcement of European IP laws, and I can tell you it is similar.
From here, it is not so clear that the US can even enforce its own laws at the moment.
> signaling unusual usage
Thank you!
> In this case, talking about countries like they're squabbling kids.
> > Started what?
> Fishy use of others' IP, packaging others' work without attribution.
I see. I guess if China is 3000 years old then maybe obviously, because the US is such a young country by comparison.
So you think it is "fair"[1] to violate Chinese Law because there were people in China who violated US law first?
If so, I think that is pretty childish.
[1]: I am trying it out!
Maybe fair in a tit-for-tat sort of way, but not okay. That's why I called the whole situation funny. The rest of your post is answered in the sibling comment.
