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0 pointshamdingers1mo ago0 comments

The Cayenne would be safer going 35 instead of 40 regardless of all other variables. It's a trivial physics question, kinetic energy is a function of mass and velocity.

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fiddlerwoaroof1mo ago

The Cayenne would not be safer going 35 instead of 40 "regardless of all other variables": it's statistically safer to go closer to the flow of traffic because you're then "at rest" with respect to other drivers (assuming a controlled access road without pedestrian traffic). If the speed limit is 55 and the flow of traffic is 70–80 (as is the case with the Beltway around DC, despite automated enforcement), then going 55 is more dangerous than "speeding". The issue with 100% enforcement is every law assumes certain circumstances or variables and the real world is infinitely more complex than any set of variables that can reasonably be foreseen by law (and laws that attempt to foresee as many variables as possible are more complicated and, consequently, harder for normal people to apply, which is another reason for latitude in enforcement).

vincnetas1mo ago

safer for whom? Remember cars are not the only ones participating in traffic.

fiddlerwoaroof1mo ago

“assuming a controlled access road without pedestrian traffic”

singpolyma31mo ago

such roads barely need speed limits. In some places they do not have them

JambalayaJimbo1mo ago

The problem with your DC beltway example wouldn’t be automated enforcement then, but with the speed limit itself.

A road without pedestrians and intersections in it should have a speed limit that reflects the reality of its use (70-80)

terryf1mo ago

I meant a 911 but thank you for answering a completely different point than what I was making.

ikr6781mo ago

The reason we have speed limits isnt due to vehciles being unable to 'handle' certain speeds though, it's to minimise the damage of an incident at that speed, which is entirely a matter of physics.

moron4hire1mo ago

No, that is not true. I used to work on road signage systems, where we would use test vehicles, sensors, and math to figure out what the correct signage should be for various sections of road. The standards are primarily concerned with maintain a margin of error for the "worst" cars on the road, i.e. the ones that meet only the minimum inspection requirements. What happens once that margin of error is exceeded was anyone's guess, but practically could be wildly different for specific scenarios that had more to do with the off-road environment than the exact parameters of the road. Two roads with identical bends would receive the same signage regardless of whether under steering through the curve would land you on a sidewalk or in a field or over a cliff.

akoboldfrying1mo ago

AFAICT at least 2 people in this thread don't seem to think that visibility -- a function of, among other things, weather and time of day -- influences driving safety. I find this amazing.

The point of terryf's example was to point out that for practical reasons, existing laws don't capture every relevant variable. I (but not everyone, it seems) think that visibility obviously influences safety. The point I want to make is that in practice the "precision gap" can't be perfectly rectified by making legality a function of more factors than just speed. There will always be some additional factor that influences the probability of a crash by some small amount -- and some of the largest factors, like individual driving ability, would be objected to on other grounds.

butlike1mo ago

"Regardless of all other variables"

Variable 1: The Cayenne is on a train track

Variable 2: The train behind the Cayenne is going 35mph.

You painted with too broad of a brush with that statement.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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fiddlerwoaroof1mo ago

vincnetas1mo ago

safer for whom? Remember cars are not the only ones participating in traffic.

fiddlerwoaroof1mo ago

“assuming a controlled access road without pedestrian traffic”

singpolyma31mo ago

such roads barely need speed limits. In some places they do not have them

JambalayaJimbo1mo ago

The problem with your DC beltway example wouldn’t be automated enforcement then, but with the speed limit itself.

A road without pedestrians and intersections in it should have a speed limit that reflects the reality of its use (70-80)

terryf1mo ago

I meant a 911 but thank you for answering a completely different point than what I was making.

ikr6781mo ago

The reason we have speed limits isnt due to vehciles being unable to 'handle' certain speeds though, it's to minimise the damage of an incident at that speed, which is entirely a matter of physics.

moron4hire1mo ago

akoboldfrying1mo ago

AFAICT at least 2 people in this thread don't seem to think that visibility -- a function of, among other things, weather and time of day -- influences driving safety. I find this amazing.

butlike1mo ago

"Regardless of all other variables"

Variable 1: The Cayenne is on a train track

Variable 2: The train behind the Cayenne is going 35mph.

You painted with too broad of a brush with that statement.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse