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0 pointsmattlondon2mo ago0 comments

I think wholesale genocide of an entire population by the Israeli state is worse. The plan is obviously drive the Palestinians onto the sea (metaphorically) and make the place uninhabitable.

Israel (and I want to be clear, I am referring to Israel the state) has blood on their hands. This went way beyond a "self defense" thing - flattening the entire country, indiscriminate killing of civilians and children, murdering paramedics and bombing ambulances, destroying schools hospitals apartment buildings etc. By a modern democratic state with the most accurate smart weapons available. It's simply unbelievable to me that they are getting away with it.

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fsckboy2mo ago

>I think wholesale genocide of an entire population by the Israeli state is worse

would be worse, but wasn't contemplated nor attempted so contributes no weight to the balance.

"from the river to the sea" on the other hand is a statement of genocidal intent.

dijit2mo ago

Most of what you say I don't disagree with. Israel's conduct since October 8th (the civilian death toll, the aid blockade, the flattening of hospitals) is legitimate to call out. The ICJ found the genocide claim plausible enough to issue binding provisional measures, which Israel then ignored [1]. That's not nothing.

But "wholesale genocide" and "the plan is obviously to drive them into the sea" are stronger claims than the evidence supports right now, and that matters a lot because the moment you overreach, everyone who wants to dismiss Palestinian suffering has a rhetorical exit. The ICJ's own careful language exists for a reason.

None of that touches the original argument anyway: that October 7th was not a "small blip." Israel's conduct after October 8th doesn't retroactively change what happened on October 7th. Both things are true simultaneously. That's the whole point I'm making.

[1] https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/26/israel-not-complying-wor...

mattlondonOP2mo ago

No, I think I have to respectfully disagree: in the continuum of the Palestine-Israel conflict, this was a small blip. Israel has been killing civilians indiscriminately for years/decades, annexing territory, bulldozing homes etc.

What was different this time was that it was Israel who was the victim, not the Palestinians. And the only way that Israel knows how to respond to these kinds of things is to kill and to destroy.

albedoa2mo ago

> I have to respectfully disagree

You are finding what happens when you show this ghouls any respect, in disagreeing or otherwise.

dijit2mo ago

"What was different this time was that it was Israel who was the victim."

You've just described the deadliest day for Jews since the Holocaust [1] as a blip because, in your accounting, it was Israel's turn to absorb one.

The "continuum" framing doesn't hold up numerically either. In non-war years, OCHA records roughly 100–200 Palestinian deaths annually at Israeli hands [2]. Hamas killed 1,139 people before lunchtime. That's not a blip in a continuum, it's five to ten years of equivalent deaths in eight hours.

The youngest victim was 14 hours old [3]. The oldest was a 92-year-old Holocaust survivor [3]. None of those facts change based on who you think had it coming.

[1] https://www.ushmm.org/information/press/press-releases/museu...

[2] https://www.ochaopt.org/content/casualties-thousands-killed-...

[3] https://www.yahoo.com/news/youngest-october-7-victim-just-00...

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halflife2mo ago

You do realize that there were live Israeli hostages Hamas held up until the last ceasefire?

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fsckboy2mo ago

>I think wholesale genocide of an entire population by the Israeli state is worse

would be worse, but wasn't contemplated nor attempted so contributes no weight to the balance.

"from the river to the sea" on the other hand is a statement of genocidal intent.

dijit2mo ago

[1] https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/26/israel-not-complying-wor...

mattlondonOP2mo ago

What was different this time was that it was Israel who was the victim, not the Palestinians. And the only way that Israel knows how to respond to these kinds of things is to kill and to destroy.

albedoa2mo ago

> I have to respectfully disagree

You are finding what happens when you show this ghouls any respect, in disagreeing or otherwise.

dijit2mo ago

"What was different this time was that it was Israel who was the victim."

You've just described the deadliest day for Jews since the Holocaust [1] as a blip because, in your accounting, it was Israel's turn to absorb one.

The youngest victim was 14 hours old [3]. The oldest was a 92-year-old Holocaust survivor [3]. None of those facts change based on who you think had it coming.

[1] https://www.ushmm.org/information/press/press-releases/museu...

[2] https://www.ochaopt.org/content/casualties-thousands-killed-...

[3] https://www.yahoo.com/news/youngest-october-7-victim-just-00...

1 more reply

halflife2mo ago

You do realize that there were live Israeli hostages Hamas held up until the last ceasefire?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse