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0 pointsem-bee1mo ago0 comments

the problem is that in developing countries smart phones are a massive technology jump for people who lack the education to even have a clue whats going on. treating people as adults does not work if they don't have the education needed for that.

these people aren't gullible. they are ignorant (in the uneducated sense). they are not making bad decisions. they are not even aware that there is a decision to be made.

and worst of all, this problem affects the majority of those populations. if more than half of our population was alcoholic then we absolutely would restrict the access to alcohol through whatever means possible.

it's a pandemic. and we all know what restrictions that required.

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tremon29d ago

> Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience

-- C.S. Lewis

em-beeOP29d ago

this is not about moral busybodies. it's not even a moral issue. it's an existential issue. this is about demands from the population to be safe from scams. those scammers ruin lives. do you think those people really prefer to be scammed and lose their life savings?

the correct solution is of course education, but education takes time. we can educate today's children so that they can protect themselves in the future. but that's the next generation. for the current generation that kind of education is to late.

the proposed solution is a stopgap measure. do you have a better idea how to solve the problem? (maybe putting more effort into persecution, but that costs money. or making banks responsible for covering the loss. but then you'll get banks demanding the protection. tyranny of the banks then? is that any better? that's actually happening in europe now.)

not doing anything will hurt a lot of people and make them unhappy. as a government you really don't want that either.

hellojesus29d ago

How about banks issue 2fa via authenticator apps instead of through sms notifications? Or they have out hardware tokens.

plst1mo ago

To add to that, I think it's important to point out that the problem of people not understanding how to safely use their devices is in big part caused by technology companies racing to get widest adoption everywhere, both in terms of location and in terms of industries. I'm not against "intuitive UX design" in general, but at it's extreme, it just fuels incompetence. We shouldn't now let them pick the most convenient option, the option that just happens to also increase their powers over the users, as a way to "fix" the problem.

em-beeOP1mo ago

I'm not against "intuitive UX design" in general, but at it's extreme, it just fuels incompetence.

how does it do that? (i am not getting hung up on "intuitive", i just mean you argue that the currently used design fuels incompetence)

how is a UI designed that doesn't fuel incompetence?

i have a hard time imagining what design aspects matter here, and how to improve upon them.

plst29d ago

> how is a UI designed that doesn't fuel incompetence?

I'm specifically talking about UX ("how a user interacts with and experiences a product, system, or service"), not necessarily UI.

> how does it do that? (i am not getting hung up on "intuitive", i just mean you argue that the currently used design fuels incompetence)

tl;dr We have a product, we want to make money, we need people to use the product. One of the things that stand in the way, is people not understanding how to use our product. We will make sure they can get started as fast as possible, and not mention how they may hurt themselves with the product, that would scare them away. Hurting yourself with our product is in the broad "don't do stupid things" category. We will never explain the "framework" (in case of an OS I mean apps, that apps can interact with each other and your data, how you can or cannot, control that), even in broad terms. Just click this button and get your solution.

It started with PCs and people not understanding how to not lose their documents. Now that every device is connected to the internet, the problem became worse.

You can now say that "sideloading" is stupid anyway, but this is not the only problem. Another thing that people still usually learn by painful experience is backups. There are fake apps, on both stores. Another thing, in-band signaling. You cannot trust email, phones, whatsapp, messenger... Even if your friend you often chat with is messaging you, they could've just been hacked. Try to explain that you also cannot trust websites and that even technical people don't have a good way of telling if an email of a website is real.

But at least enrollment is fast and adoption metrics are growing. Since we are already in "move fast and break things" mindset, we will think about fixing such issues when it actually becomes a problem.

To be clear, I'm not saying that making technology easy is always bad, that you should always expose the user to "the elements" and expect them pipe commands in the shell. But I think that often the focus is on only making enrollment fast. "Get started"

What if we actually expected people to understand something about technologies they want to use?

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