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0 pointsceteia1mo ago0 comments

https://materialize.com/blog/rust-concurrency-bug-unbounded-...

Edit: Replying to ghusbands:

'unsafe' is a core part of Rust itself, not a separate language. And it occurs often in some types of Rust projects or their dependencies. For instance, to avoid bounds checking and not rely on compiler optimizations, some Rust projects use vec::get_unchecked, which is unsafe. One occurrence in code is here:

https://grep.app/pola-rs/polars/main/crates/polars-io/src/cs...

And there are other reasons than performance to use unsafe, like FFI.

Edit2: ghusbands had a different reply when I wrote the above reply, but edited it since.

Edit3: Ycombinator prevents posting relatively many new comments in a short time span. And ghusbands is also wrong about his answer not being edited without him making that clear.

0 comments

pjmlp1mo ago

Those kind of arguments is like posting news about people still dying while wearing seat belts and helmets, ignoring the lifes that were saved by having them on.

By the way, I am having these kind of arguments since Object Pascal, back when using languages safer than C was called straighjacket programming.

Ironically, most C wannabe replacements are Object Pascal/Modula-2 like in the safety they offer, except we know better 40 years later for the use cases they still had no answer for.

ceteiaOP1mo ago

People made similar arguments regarding C++ versus Ada. The US military and defense industry even got something like a mandate in the 1990s to only write in Ada.

And then there was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_flight_V88 , where US$370 million was lost. The code was written in Ada.

And using seat belts and wearing helmets do not help in those cases where 'unsafe' is used to take the seat belts and helmets off. And that is needed in Rust in a number of types of cases, such as some types of performance-sensitive code.

pjmlp1mo ago

Yes, people like to point out Ariane explosion, without going into the details, and missing out on F-35 budget explosion much worse, with ridiculous failures like having to reboot its avionics in flight.

It is like bringing the news of that lucky soul, that only survived a car crash, because it was thrown out of the car, managed to land in such a way that it survived the crash, survival statistics be dammed.

1 more reply

ghusbands1mo ago

Yes, once you use 'unsafe' to bypass the safety model, you don't get safety.

Edit: If you reply with a reply, rather than edits, you don't get such confusion.

1 more reply

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0 pointsceteia1mo ago0 comments

https://materialize.com/blog/rust-concurrency-bug-unbounded-...

Edit: Replying to ghusbands:

https://grep.app/pola-rs/polars/main/crates/polars-io/src/cs...

And there are other reasons than performance to use unsafe, like FFI.

Edit2: ghusbands had a different reply when I wrote the above reply, but edited it since.

Edit3: Ycombinator prevents posting relatively many new comments in a short time span. And ghusbands is also wrong about his answer not being edited without him making that clear.

0 comments

pjmlp1mo ago

Those kind of arguments is like posting news about people still dying while wearing seat belts and helmets, ignoring the lifes that were saved by having them on.

By the way, I am having these kind of arguments since Object Pascal, back when using languages safer than C was called straighjacket programming.

Ironically, most C wannabe replacements are Object Pascal/Modula-2 like in the safety they offer, except we know better 40 years later for the use cases they still had no answer for.

ceteiaOP1mo ago

People made similar arguments regarding C++ versus Ada. The US military and defense industry even got something like a mandate in the 1990s to only write in Ada.

And then there was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_flight_V88 , where US$370 million was lost. The code was written in Ada.

pjmlp1mo ago

1 more reply

ghusbands1mo ago

Yes, once you use 'unsafe' to bypass the safety model, you don't get safety.

Edit: If you reply with a reply, rather than edits, you don't get such confusion.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse