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0 pointsJoker_vD1mo ago0 comments

Which actually supports the OP's original argument that even with training and getting used to, this syntax reads harder than

        let a, b, c = 0, 1, 0
    fb_start:
        writen(a)
        b +:= 1
        a := b - a
        if c < 100 do goto fb-start

0 comments

tmtvl1mo ago

Leaving aside the fact that you have at least 4 (EDIT: 5) mistakes in that code, I find it less readable than the Lisp equivalent. The brackets reinforce the structure imposed by the indentation and help me keep track of order of execution. But that's how my brain works and that's why syntax is subjective.

Joker_vDOP1mo ago

My apologies, it should've been (if you insist on indentation)

        let a, b, c = 0, 1, 0
    fb_start:
        writen(a)
        b +:= a
        a :=
          b - a
        c +:= 1
        if c < 100 do
          goto fb-start

Would you care to elaborate about brackets helping with tracking the order of execution? I'm really curious about that part.

kazinator1mo ago

TXR Lisp, with infix via ifx macro:

  (ifx
    (let ((a 0) (b 1) (c 0))
      (tagbody
       fb-start
        (prinl a)
        (b += a)
        (a := b - a)
        (c += 1)
        (if (c < 100)
          (go fb-start)))))

tmtvl1mo ago

Well, the P in PEMDAS stands for 'brackets'. The clearest example, even though it's rather uncommon:

  a := x ** y ** z

(and that's hoping the language does the OOE for exponentiation arithmetically correctly) versus

  (setf a (expt x (expt y z)))

It's a bit like how Reverse Polish Notation is superior to the infix notation we torture ourselves with (x + y * z or (x + y) * z versus x y z * + or x y + z *).

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kazinator1mo ago

> let a, b, c = 0, 1, 0

That's atrocious; = should never have a lower precedence than comma.

Joker_vDOP1mo ago

Please forward your complaints to Martin Richards @ https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mr10/ for making this decision.

Also, why?

kazinator1mo ago

Sorry, where did Martin Richards supposedly make this decision?

1 more reply

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tmtvl1mo ago

Joker_vDOP1mo ago

My apologies, it should've been (if you insist on indentation)

        let a, b, c = 0, 1, 0
    fb_start:
        writen(a)
        b +:= a
        a :=
          b - a
        c +:= 1
        if c < 100 do
          goto fb-start

Would you care to elaborate about brackets helping with tracking the order of execution? I'm really curious about that part.

kazinator1mo ago

TXR Lisp, with infix via ifx macro:

  (ifx
    (let ((a 0) (b 1) (c 0))
      (tagbody
       fb-start
        (prinl a)
        (b += a)
        (a := b - a)
        (c += 1)
        (if (c < 100)
          (go fb-start)))))

tmtvl1mo ago

Well, the P in PEMDAS stands for 'brackets'. The clearest example, even though it's rather uncommon:

  a := x ** y ** z

(and that's hoping the language does the OOE for exponentiation arithmetically correctly) versus

  (setf a (expt x (expt y z)))

It's a bit like how Reverse Polish Notation is superior to the infix notation we torture ourselves with (x + y * z or (x + y) * z versus x y z * + or x y + z *).

1 more reply

kazinator1mo ago

> let a, b, c = 0, 1, 0

That's atrocious; = should never have a lower precedence than comma.

Joker_vDOP1mo ago

Please forward your complaints to Martin Richards @ https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mr10/ for making this decision.

Also, why?

kazinator1mo ago

Sorry, where did Martin Richards supposedly make this decision?

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse