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0 pointssaarp1mo ago0 comments

> Firstly, I have met very few malicious people in my career.

Few people are openly malicious. That doesn't mean they are altruistic or motivated by some concept of "greater good". Most people will go along with the general sentiment though their actions are typically focused on their own benefit. This makes a lot of sense.

Honestly, your perspective feels a little out of touch. If you had some private conversations with individual contributors at multiple levels of your organization, you may get a different perspective. In my experience, most "leadership" is about maximizing the leader's personal gain. They are running their own company within the company and will compete in whatever internal currency the company culture has. This is why incentives are difficult.

Perhaps the simplest way to manage is to a P/L and employee retention. So long as those are healthy, the group is healthy.

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jimnotgym1mo ago

> Honestly, your perspective feels a little out of touch.

As does yours too me. I have been a senior manager in finance and IT at companies from $15m and a middle-manager at a mega-corp (on the senior management team of a business unit with 600 staff). I have had staff in several countries, I work with people in many more. Honestly most people want to do a good job without their boss shouting at them.

> will compete in whatever internal currency the company culture has

You seem to be agreeing with me.

saarpOP1mo ago

>> will compete in whatever internal currency the company culture has

>You seem to be agreeing with me.

I'm saying this is a bad thing. The "currency" is often based on perception of what the leader likes. My suggestion here is instead focus on actual dollars and cents. Does the sub-org bring in more than they spend? It will change the way you think about organizations. If the group has no source for income, you have to wonder why it exists.

I have been mostly in tech but also in companies that are not solely tech companies. For you, it seems like "senior management" means you talk to VPs. I have been a "senior manager" but it speaks mostly to my depth of experience. I talk to VPs and directors when I need to, but mostly I'm speaking to folks that are doing the work. I think this is why our perspectives are different. When you're two or more levels away from the point of execution it's very easy to be out of touch.

jimnotgym1mo ago

> The "currency" is often based on perception of what the leader likes

As a leader we could start by making the currency a positive thing? I make it clear that stopping late more than once a twice a year is negative, for instance. People stopped doing it.

>When you're two or more levels away from the point of execution it's very easy to be out of touch.

It is, so make an effort not to be out of touch. I left one job and the cleaner sent an apology for not being able to say goodbye, since she was off. She didn't work for me in any way. Why? Because I talked to her, and listened to her. Last week someone had a tough time who works for someone, who works for someone who works for me. I went and sat with them for a couple of hours.

I don't know everyone's name at the coal face, there are hundreds, but I know what they do and ask them about it. If their area has made an improvement, I go and see it, and say well done. I saw someone limping down the stairs one day, I asked them what happened. When I saw them walking well the following week I remarked on it. They stopped and chatted for a few minutes, then told me all about a problem with one of our systems. It confirmed what I thought. Every time those conversations happen they tell me a bit about what is going on in the real world. I'm careful not to criticise, and to use the info against anyone. I get my tea from the main canteen on the other side of the campus so I bump into people, not just managers. When I get asked to approve spend, I write and ask if I can visit the area so I can understand. If I support it I write to the next person in the approval chain (if there is one after me) and tell them why. I take my team to visit people in other departments, and introduce the other person, and explain what they do, so they know I know. I'm famous for having the longest ever tour of one of our sites, because I asked so many questions about the technology, and spoke to every one I met. I think I have a pretty good idea what is going on.

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0 pointssaarp1mo ago0 comments

> Firstly, I have met very few malicious people in my career.

Perhaps the simplest way to manage is to a P/L and employee retention. So long as those are healthy, the group is healthy.

0 comments

jimnotgym1mo ago

> Honestly, your perspective feels a little out of touch.

> will compete in whatever internal currency the company culture has

You seem to be agreeing with me.

saarpOP1mo ago

>> will compete in whatever internal currency the company culture has

>You seem to be agreeing with me.

jimnotgym1mo ago

> The "currency" is often based on perception of what the leader likes

As a leader we could start by making the currency a positive thing? I make it clear that stopping late more than once a twice a year is negative, for instance. People stopped doing it.

>When you're two or more levels away from the point of execution it's very easy to be out of touch.

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