There is no perfect IDE. They all have problems / are inadequate / get in the way. I absolutely loathe IntelliJ IDEA for example, and think Eclipse is needlessly complex (though I'd like their code-indentation/formatting UI to replace the one in Xcode).
Honestly, Xcode gets a lot of bad comments, but it works pretty well for me and the debugging tools are pretty much top-notch if you take the time to learn them.
I started a project on January 5th. Running sloc right now I see:
---------- Result ------------
Physical : 44454
Source : 31019
Comment : 7284
Single-line comment : 2622
Block comment : 4662
Mixed : 210
Empty block comment : 2
Empty : 6363
To Do : 0
----------------------------
That's a lot of code in just under a month (and none of it from AI tools), I don't think the IDE is getting in my way.
Perhaps it's just the setup you (the generic "you") are used to or something. I've got 3 4k screens connected to a Mac Studio here, and plenty of space for a terminal or four to be running on-screen at the same time and in windows that don't obscure the things I want to look at. I guess if you code on an MBP and space is limited, it might be easier to switch to ? But I generally want that space for my debugger and console-app i/o. I think it'd just get in the way...
Sometimes I'll use Ghostty at the same time and switch between the two. Just depends on what I'm trying to do at the moment.
Nothing wrong with maintaining all the context you need in a single window instead of alt+tabbing to different apps, especially for those not engulfed by three 4K displays.
Also, when working on multiple projects, it’s much easier to have shells attached to a specific project that I can toggle with a keyboard shortcut to get process output or Claude right next to the code I’m looking at.
Debugging is integrated, profiling is integrated, script-running as part of the build is integrated. Application output is integrated. What do you actually use it for ? Genuine question.
I guess the AI tools might be something - I don't know about that, I don't use them.
I assumed it came from Windows users who have a habit of running everything in full-screen.
Turns out, for me, the terminal emulator embedded in the IDE has been a big plus.
The original comment was aimed at Xcode though, and it's in that context that I'm (still) struggling to see why you need a terminal.
MacOS has very very slow slow window- and desktop- switching (over one FULL second to switch from one desktop to another - this is not a joke!) so having a terminal integrated into the same application is very useful for maintaining flow for users developing on a single-screen Macbook.
I just checked with a screen recording. Switching desktops takes 15 frames (250 ms). If you turn reduce motion on, it takes 13 frames (216 ms).
Window switching is instantaneous though, and I do that a lot
If I'd do anything to Xcode or Android Studio, it'd be to split more things out of them and make them excellent at their core tasks.
You should be careful making such statements to an audience in which many have been around when IDEs were invented.
It's certainly a useful thing to have, and yes, these days many IDEs do have it. But Xcode itself is from the time long before that feature became the default. And, unfortunately, it is mostly still stuck there.
when your IDE crashes (inevitably), you lose the entire console context and all running processes within it. There is also no way to detach the terminal from the IDE, say when the IDE needs to be updated (constantly).
IDE terminals also tend to be buggy.
I invite you to back up your claim by researching the following (as a starting point).
Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, VSCodium, IntelliJ IDEA, PyCharm, WebStorm, PhpStorm, CLion, GoLand, Rider, RubyMine, DataGrip, AppCode, RustRover, DataSpell, JetBrains Fleet, JetBrains Air, JetBrains MPS, Eclipse, NetBeans, Xcode, Android Studio, Sublime Text, Emacs, Spacemacs, Vim, Neovim, Theia, Code::Blocks, Dev-C++, Neil deGrasse Tyson’s Seemingly Limitless Trove of Knowledge, Turbo C++, Borland Delphi, RAD Studio, Lazarus, Qt Creator, KDevelop, Anjuta, GNOME Builder, MonoDevelop, SharpDevelop, BlueJ, Greenfoot, DrJava, Son of DrJava, Evil Bizarro Son of DrJava, jGRASP, Barely Beyond Your jGrasp, JDeveloper, JBuilder, JCreator, Aptana Studio, Komodo IDE, Komodo Edit, Geany, Light Table (may it rest in peace), Brackets, Zed, Cursor, Windsurf, Trae, Google Antigravity, Void, VoidedBowels, Kiro, Qoder, Cline, OpenCode, Spyder, IDLE, Thonny, Wing IDE, Eric, PyDev, PyScripter, Pyzo, Jupyter, RStudio, Zasper, MATLAB IDE, Scilab, Octave GUI, LabVIEW, Arduino IDE, PlatformIO, MPLAB X, Keil µVision, IAR Embedded Workbench, Atmel Studio, Other FPGA Tooling That No One Has Heard Of, Microchip Studio, Code Composer Studio, STM32CubeIDE, Segger Embedded Studio, AvalonStudio, ElectronIDE, Replit, Gitpod, GitHub Codespaces, AWS Cloud9, Google Cloud Shell Editor, Firebase Studio, Codenvy, Eclipse Che, CodeSandbox, StackBlitz, Glitch, If you have read this far, I am very impressed, Codeanywhere, CodeTasty, CodeTasty+, CodeTasty++, SourceLair, JSFiddle, CodePen, JDoodle, ShiftEdit, AppJet, PowerShell ISE, Embarcadero C++Builder, some IDE that I began coding 10 years ago but never finished, PureBasic IDE, GameMaker Studio, Unity, Unreal Editor, Godot, Redot Engine, Construct, RPG Maker, Defold, CryEngine, Roblox Studio, Stride, Open 3D Engine, HaxeDevelop, FlashDevelop, Leksah, Pharo, Squeak, DrRacket, LispWorks, Allegro CL, SLIME, some IDE invented inside some company you’ve never heard of, CIDER, Calva, Cursive, Smalltalk/X, Visual Works, IBM Rational Application Developer, IBM Rational Software Architect, SAP ABAP Workbench, Oracle SQL Developer, Toad, DBeaver, HeidiSQL, pgAdmin, SQL Server Management Studio, Xojo, LiveCode, HCL Domino Designer, Clarion, Progress OpenEdge, 4D, FileMaker, OutSystems, Mendix, Salesforce Developer Console, placeholder for some truly hideous Semantic Web monstrosity, Oracle APEX, Oracle Forms Builder, some random side project that Stephen Wolfram commissioned an intern to build, PowerBuilder, WinDev, PrimalScript, SlickEdit, UltraEdit, CodeLite, Source Insight, Pelles C, Open Watcom IDE, LiteIDE, Nova, BBEdit, TextMate (not everything in this list is actually an IDE, apparently), CotEditor, CodeWarrior, Turbo Pascal, Borland C++, Visual Age, Visual Cafe, Forte for Java, Sun ONE Studio, Zeus IDE, SciTE, Programmer’s Notepad, Ultimate++, Cevelop, Zinjai, JCppEdit, WeBuilder, Bluefish, CudaText, Kate, gedit, Notepad++, PSPad, EmEditor, Textadept, Leafpad, Graviton, Lite XL, Lapce, Helix, Micro, Cosmic IDE, Squircle IDE, CppDroid, Pydroid 3, Squiggle, SapphireSteel, Codelobster, CodeWright, The Reverend Thomas Bayes’s Glorious Probabilistic Workspace, CSPro, Adobe ColdFusion Builder, yikes that last one gives me nightmares, Adobe Flash Builder, Basic4ppc, BlackBox Component Builder, Bricx Command Center, CA-Telon, Maestro I, Absoft, ANTLR Studio, Apple Dylan, Stardraw, DbVisualizer, Mule IDE, v0, Coder, Data Display Debugger, Softbench, Visual Basic IDE, Dartmouth BASIC IDE, Athas, Fresh Editor, PlayCode, MyEclipse
(Thanks Claude, once again you have been more helpful than a human, which is more than a little concerning.)
I don’t know if all of these are real or qualify as IDE’s, but I hope I’ve made my point: it turns out using the word “every” is a broad and bold claim.
And please don’t simply backpedal and say that you meant “most” unless you’ve actually done the research.
I expect others do things differently for different reasons as much as much as I expect an IDE to support more than one type of user.
This is the dumbest response anyone can ever have to being presented with the answer to their own question of "what's wrong".
Ok you don't think this is important but your customer (or whatever) just to told you it's important to them. Surprise surprise this is literally why xcode sucks (because Apple seeks to dictate instead of accommodating).
Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but whatever it is, it works for me. I still don't see any advantage to putting a second-rate (they're never as good as the real thing) terminal into an IDE. Someone mentioned project-specific completions, but I can't say I've ever needed the terminal to do that, and I generally don't run IDE-specific tools (also mentioned) from the terminal either.
Maybe my natural workflow gels better with how Apple envisioned people using the IDE, perhaps I happen to be on the "golden path", but ... again shrug. Works for me.
Since when terminal is "the most basic feature"?
Reading threads in HN and seeing mild "wars" how Kitty/Alacritty/Ghostty/iTerm/Konsole/you-name-it are worse/better than Kitty/Alacritty/Ghostty/iTerm/Konsole/you-name-it, because they are slower/faster, (in)compatible with some ancient niche protocols/standards, etc.
Does not seem that basic to me?
Also it's personal preference, but I somehow used to have my editors and my terminals separate. I guess something about having a tool that does one thing best and all.
The whole conversation came from someone claiming the most basic feature of an IDE is to include a terminal - that's why people are discussing terminals.
Don't get me wrong, I live in the terminal when using the computer, but I don't see a need for one when using Xcode.
By your logic (that many people discuss) web browsers are "basic", IDEs are "basic", programming languages are the most "basic" thing (how many of them! discussions are limitless!!).
EDIT: have the gut to explain yourself instead of downvoting ;) , I am not discussing in bad faith , but you do you.
> Because I like to get project-aware completions, or run pre-configured tools from the IDE in an actual shell, for example. > Also, when working on multiple projects, it’s much easier to have shells attached to a specific project that I can toggle with a keyboard shortcut to get process output or Claude right next to the code I’m looking at.
Window switching is bad enough on MacOS, especially if you have multiple projects open at the same time.