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0 pointslnsru3mo ago0 comments

Nothing amusing. Germany is not really rich compared to nordics. And now let‘s do so math! Electricity: 0,3€/kWh and gas 0,1€/kWh. I need ~3x more gas to get same temperature in my room. And gas heating costs €10k while heat pump €40k without subsidies and probably raw €15k material cost if I install it by myself. So why should I pay more by €30k to install experimental thing for a decade when my low cost gas heating will last for 3 decades again. The monthly bill is the same.

0 comments

xeromal3mo ago

I installed mini splits (small heat pumps) in each of our rooms. Everyone gets their own temperature and they were only 800$ a piece. Did installation myself and it was pretty easy. Hardest thing was pulling a vacuum in the lines before releasing the freon (or whatever it's called) but all I did was watch a youtube video. They've been going strong for several years. I looked at the prices and they are still the same.

bratwurst30003mo ago

Did the same. air air is cheap and works like a charm. this 40k for heatpump is for the most luxury version every salesmen trys to sell

xeromal3mo ago

Yeah if 40k is the go to amount of heat pumps, the entire country has lost the plot

mk893mo ago

BTW, in Germany you're not allowed to install it yourself. At least that's what I read some time ago. I guess nobody checks, of course, but in case things go bad and you need insurance, probably they can invalidate it due to the fact you did something illegal.

Not saying it makes sense, though.

bratwurst30003mo ago

i installed mine myself and probably illegaly. But its super easy and those people who install it do a shit job sometimes. I watched professionell people flushing those pipes with compressed air....

And the fine is nonexistent so everyone should do it themself.

1 more reply

stefanfisk3mo ago

What is the calculus behind 40k? I just checked some Swedish vendors and here they calculate 12k for hardware and installation of a fairly large heat pump.

https://www.polarpumpen.se/kunskapsbanken/varmepump-kunskaps...

ZeroGravitas3mo ago

Octopus and a German University did a report on costs.

UK heat pumps are half the cost of German installs 14k Vs 28k euros.

Theres multiple reasons given:

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/03/13/heat-pumps-in-germany...

Also, I believe Octopus have nearly halved the UK price since that report by optimising installs.

willvarfar3mo ago

Yeah small air-air pumps - which are the most common for single houses - are easily under 2000EUR including installation; if you keep eyes out for special offers it'd be about 1500EUR in Swedish prices.

lnsruOP3mo ago

State subsidies and insane overregulation. Think about replacing the cabinet for electricity meters (+4000€) for heat pump installation.

bratwurst30003mo ago

smart meters are paid by the grid operator and you have to pay maximum 50€ a year for a smartmeter. I honestly dont know where you get your numbers. a friend with a big house and 3 children switched to air water heatpump with floor heating etc and it was 18k€ and half of that paif by the state and the smart meter was mostly free( he pais 25€ a year for it).

and this is a hugeeee house. No solar but he is working on it.

could you link some proof of this smartmeters I have to pay? Or some calculations from firms it whatever that proof your point.

1 more reply

pjc503mo ago

Why is that required? Switch to three phase? Wasn't required for me in the UK.

1 more reply

worik3mo ago

> So why should I pay more by €30k to install experimental thing for a decade when my low cost gas heating will last for 3 decades again.

Because:

It is not experimental (it is no longer 1992)

Your gas comes from Russia, and they hate you - roughly speaking

Your prices are miles from reality

Face it, fossil fuels are deprecated. Your gas heating will be unusable with no gas to put in it

pjc503mo ago

The problem is the gas (a) emits CO2 and (b) comes from Russia.

Retric3mo ago

40k for heat pumps is wildly overkill here if that’s what you where quoted someone is trying to scam you. More critically, those prices aren’t set in stone over the next 30 years.

Home PV for example is way less than 0,3€/kWh and rather dramatically changes these comparisons.

vintermann3mo ago

If we only could get China to do for heat pumps what they did for solar panels...

Scoundreller3mo ago

I’m filling my garage with cheap heat pumps and solar panels.

Going to sell for 10x when the water wars commence.

pettertb3mo ago

Note that we don't have much gas infrastructure here in the nordics, since we (used to) have cheap electricity.

If you choose between heat pump and not-heat-pump electric heating, it is cheaper.

bratwurst30003mo ago

that doesnt even make sense. if gas is 3x of electricity it should be the same cost but for every watt of electricity you get 3 watt of heating. so by your math if I pay 1w gas but need 3w for 1w of electricity and heatpumps give 3w on every watt of electricity heatpumps are 300% more effective then gas. sooo your point is also heatpumps ftw ;)

triceratops3mo ago

€40k for a heat pump is insane. Even just the parts for €15k is unbelievable. Do you have a source?

jabl3mo ago

> Germany is not really rich compared to nordics.

(From another post I made in this thread)

Looking at IMF 2025 GDP per capita figures (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... ):

Norway: $92k

Denmark: $77k

Sweden: $62k

Germany: $60k

UK: $57k

Finland: $56k

So yeah, Denmark and particularly Norway are a bit richer than the others, but the others are in the same ballpark.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

xeromal3mo ago

bratwurst30003mo ago

Did the same. air air is cheap and works like a charm. this 40k for heatpump is for the most luxury version every salesmen trys to sell

xeromal3mo ago

Yeah if 40k is the go to amount of heat pumps, the entire country has lost the plot

mk893mo ago

Not saying it makes sense, though.

bratwurst30003mo ago

i installed mine myself and probably illegaly. But its super easy and those people who install it do a shit job sometimes. I watched professionell people flushing those pipes with compressed air....

And the fine is nonexistent so everyone should do it themself.

1 more reply

stefanfisk3mo ago

What is the calculus behind 40k? I just checked some Swedish vendors and here they calculate 12k for hardware and installation of a fairly large heat pump.

https://www.polarpumpen.se/kunskapsbanken/varmepump-kunskaps...

ZeroGravitas3mo ago

Octopus and a German University did a report on costs.

UK heat pumps are half the cost of German installs 14k Vs 28k euros.

Theres multiple reasons given:

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/03/13/heat-pumps-in-germany...

Also, I believe Octopus have nearly halved the UK price since that report by optimising installs.

willvarfar3mo ago

lnsruOP3mo ago

State subsidies and insane overregulation. Think about replacing the cabinet for electricity meters (+4000€) for heat pump installation.

bratwurst30003mo ago

and this is a hugeeee house. No solar but he is working on it.

could you link some proof of this smartmeters I have to pay? Or some calculations from firms it whatever that proof your point.

1 more reply

pjc503mo ago

Why is that required? Switch to three phase? Wasn't required for me in the UK.

1 more reply

worik3mo ago

> So why should I pay more by €30k to install experimental thing for a decade when my low cost gas heating will last for 3 decades again.

Because:

It is not experimental (it is no longer 1992)

Your gas comes from Russia, and they hate you - roughly speaking

Your prices are miles from reality

Face it, fossil fuels are deprecated. Your gas heating will be unusable with no gas to put in it

pjc503mo ago

The problem is the gas (a) emits CO2 and (b) comes from Russia.

Retric3mo ago

40k for heat pumps is wildly overkill here if that’s what you where quoted someone is trying to scam you. More critically, those prices aren’t set in stone over the next 30 years.

Home PV for example is way less than 0,3€/kWh and rather dramatically changes these comparisons.

vintermann3mo ago

If we only could get China to do for heat pumps what they did for solar panels...

Scoundreller3mo ago

I’m filling my garage with cheap heat pumps and solar panels.

Going to sell for 10x when the water wars commence.

pettertb3mo ago

Note that we don't have much gas infrastructure here in the nordics, since we (used to) have cheap electricity.

If you choose between heat pump and not-heat-pump electric heating, it is cheaper.

bratwurst30003mo ago

triceratops3mo ago

€40k for a heat pump is insane. Even just the parts for €15k is unbelievable. Do you have a source?

jabl3mo ago

> Germany is not really rich compared to nordics.

(From another post I made in this thread)

Looking at IMF 2025 GDP per capita figures (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... ):

Norway: $92k

Denmark: $77k

Sweden: $62k

Germany: $60k

UK: $57k

Finland: $56k

So yeah, Denmark and particularly Norway are a bit richer than the others, but the others are in the same ballpark.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse