We want to help people in the EU, but with laws like replaceable batteries, it's going to push us further and further away from being able to do that.
Our product is designed to be refurbished, but not user-replaceable.
At the same time, how many products do people give up on because of battery life, and is this a non-issue with future battery chemistries?
Do people replace their phones because the battery isn't good anymore, or is it more likely they've broken the screen, cameras, etc to the point where it doesn't make sense to replace those anymore? Or they just want the newest thing?
This is why repairability isn't restricted to just the battery. And buying the newest thing every year is kinda frowned upon here in the EU now. I'm sure some people still do it but most people aren't flashing their new phone around anymore. And phones have become boring anyway. The latest Samsung S25 is mostly the same as the S23, exact same form factor, cameras. Just a bit faster and a bit more memory.
But the government sets a baseline here to stimulate sustainability. I really agree with it, this planet has to be usable for a lot longer. And economic growth isn't everything.
We have to move away from consumerism for the sake of it and I think we're making good inroads here in the EU. Not to mention it means there's more money left over for important stuff like doing things with friends.
Is there any evidence that Europeans aren’t buying new phones at the same rate that they used to?
And https://www.unibocconi.it/en/news/disposable-smartphones-tri... has replacement cycles in Italy going up.
Anecdotally, 2023/24 all media in Germany was full of ads for shops trading refurb phones. Most of those talked lower prices, but some mentioned sustainability.
I bet it is the case, not because it is frowned upon, but because tpeople have less money, the prices of phone increased a lot and the increase of performance and usefulness is plateauing.
We want to help people, but only if and when it’s profitable for us to do so on terms we decide for you.
The terms seem at least, largely influenced by the laws euros seem happy with. Regulation has a cost.
And regulations are here to make businesses internalize this cost instead of letting society as a whole pay it out.
If s/he is running a company and not a charity, this is responsible, understandable, and predictable.
There's more important things than "entrepreneurial creativity". Not everything that can make sense as a business plan makes sense for the world.
We can survive without rings that allow us to mutter voice notes into our fists while walking around.
Currently trying to stretch a Pixel 7 until 2027.
And that's why the EU also mandate a 5-years software support period (and I wish it was even more).
Pretty much exclusively? The last 4-5 iPhone purchases in my family have all been due to dying batteries (plus a couple of off-brand battery replacements by local cellphone techs).
Nothing else on iPhones really ever breaks, provided you keep some sort of case on it. The only non-battery failure I've ever had was a corroded lightning port (on a iPhone that was regularly used in a salt-chlorine swimming pool). And of course a couple of replacements due to critical banking apps that have drop support for old iOS versions...
People on HN have such a blind spot around old, used phones which thrive in secondary marketplaces. You'd think iPhones are filling dumpsters with the rhetoric here but they actually hold their value remarkably well, which means they have a much longer useful life. A replaceable battery is different from a user-replaceable battery. The former is a sustainability concern, the latter is just a feature.
The ones that aged out of running needed software are still sitting in a cabinet somewhere. A couple of the others were killed off when their battery pack swelled, and another didn't survive a local tech's efforts to replace the battery...
With batteries that could be replaced without delaminating the whole device, (and ideally, an open boot loader), I'd be able to make use of most of them.
Why?
It'd be hard to design/manufacture a device that reliably remains waterproof after a typical not-specially-skilled owner opens it up to replace a battery. It's really common to hear of people damaging watches due to water ingress after battery replacements, getting seals or orings seated just right isn't something every user is going to be able to do.
I can imagine some medical devices have similar sealing requirements, perhaps even more robust sealing methods since they might need to be exposed to regular disinfection grade cleaning with chemicals harsher then just water. I could easily understand why a company may design a medical device that its heat-glued together for sealing purposes in a way that can only reasonably be done (and redone) at the factory.
I killed an original Pebble when I Dremelled it open to replace the battery, and failed to hot glue seal it well enough and it got wet inside.
Having said that - I dislike this design choice for the Index 01. I can see myself becoming reliant on this right before they sell out to Garmin or whoever and tell all their customers to FOAD again. Trust is very hard to win back.
This product is perfect for that case, though: you have to decide to buy another one each time the battery runs down, which aligns seller incentives with the user/purchaser. The danger cases are mainly when the seller gets up front money and then has to provide something indefinitely.
Yes. I'm not bothered about the latest thing, and every phone I've replaced has been because of two things: the battery has degraded until it's unacceptable, or it no longer gets OS updates.
I understand your point but being safe is not an option
> Do people replace their phones because the battery isn't good anymore
I just had to change the battery of my phone, and I wish that it would have been just a swap to do. Actually because it wasn't, I add to buy a temporary phone the time I needed to have the parts and the tools
It’s so tragic that people can’t buy your product that will end up in a landfill.
Maybe we don’t have to focus society so much on buying products? What a wild concept.
> We want to help people in the EU, but with laws like replaceable batteries, it's going to push us further and further away from being able to do that.
All I could think of was "Wow, the regulation works better than expected".
It's incredible the other side think of themselves as "We want to help people in this environment we don't understand, but receiving pushback" and yet they don't want to adjust, no, it's the environment that is wrong, even if it's built up by people.
My iPhones typically get a fresh battery around the 3-year mark, or whenever the battery health dips below 80%, and do a second tour of duty with someone in the family. In all cases so far, the OS goes out of support and apps stop working before the second battery degrades.
My wife bought some cheap electric toothbrush that runs on AA batteries, which can be rechargeable and have a lifespan independent of the gadget.
