I guess me and the remaining 41% of voters are still left wishing for 5" phones to make a comeback.
People don't know what they want unless you give it to them.
As someone holding onto their iPhone mini 13 for dear life, I hope they will release a one off in a few years once support for the 13 mini ends.
Since there's no new development happening with small phones, we'd have to settle for "older spec" screens (IE, new stock iPhone 5 screens, with none of the colour accuracy, frame-rate etc improvements from the last 10 years).
People don't like "old spec", so they'd probably not buy those devices.
If you're a small player, then you're downstream of the supply chain, you don't make the rules.
Chicken and Egg problem.
Ironically people think there's no market for small phones due to apple making a "small phone" which had a larger screen size than an iPhone 6.. which was when phones started getting too big for me, and many people I spoke to.
So, you make a small phone that isn't actually small, it sells like poop so you presume that people don't want small phones..
<rant>
Who made the decision? There are still so many of us wanting a compact phone, but the big tech companies (Google, Apple, etc.) said no, therefore we can't have it. Not only can we not have it, they also closed the door on everyone, now even if someone wants to service this section of the market, they can't. Because, yes, the supply chain has left us.
This is power - they are taking away our freedoms and anatomy. They are making decisions for us and we have absolutely no say.
</rant>
Compact phones is but one of examples. A more current example would be the rocketing DRAM price. We got do something to stop this, but I feel so powerless.
Absolutely irrelevant for what I do with a phone, and I'd wager that 90% of users would not notice the difference.
Feels kinda weird, definitely works.
(same for music)
It's way too big for me. Anything above 71mm width is unconfortable to hold in one hand or pocket.
Otherwise, I'm trying to abstain from smart phone usage as much as possible: the market is probably _never_ going to solve one which solves addiction problem. (the best solution for this is to have a desktop computer which you only sit at for specific tasks)
On the other hand, if I could run my company's OTP and it were much more private than iOS or Android I would probably jump ship.
The problem with having a single button, even configurable, is that it's all-or-nothing, and I might want different things at different times.
But thanks so much for taking the first step!
If nothing else it is a fun platform to hack on. I'm currently hacking a toy OS for it, and the documentation for the SoC is fairly complete. I'd love an updated phone like this Jolly orange Jolla to hack on, but not at that price, and seems like it might be locked down.
As an American, I will order this phone as soon as it’s available to me!
I’m not aware of any similar option for us at the moment so I’m a little sad.
It won’t be. From the time of their first phone the company actively made the choice to not support the US market. There’s the obvious spectrum difference and cost to certify, but the real reason they don’t want to touch it is litigation risk on patents and whatnot.
However, they do not have a continous history of not shipping. I personally owned their two previous phone handsets, both shipped. Also I've bought and run their firmwares on third party handsets, they also shipped the software.
Looks like the market just gets more fragmented without any improvements towards better sustainability/reusability. The only thing that really caught my attention recently was Pilet, a handheld Raspberry Pi. That's a really cool thing, that gives mobility while maintaining functionality.
While it's not perfect I've been investing more time into learning to live with grapheneOS. I can run Emacs and clang on the go. It's a better start that won't turn into a paperweight.
Meanwhile, from [1]
> 2,777 backers pledged CA$ 1,264,707 to help bring this project to life.
> UPDATE: The project got fully funded within 5 minutes! Can’t believe the support—thank you so much!
ClockworkPi's DevTerm, uConsole, GameShell are constantly sold out [2]. Hackberry Pi, constantly sold out.
Jolla's strength is SailfishOS which is a successor of Maemo/MeeGo. It is a Linux-based solution with a good, gesture-based UI with Android emulation.
GrapheneOS has nothing to do with any of these projects. It is software-only, for Google Pixel devices, and it has a specific strength (security) no other OS/HW combo comes close to.
The strength of a modular smartphone is, it is repairable and you can physically alter its features without changing form factor, like Framework. For smartphones, I believe a Fairphone is very modular, and smartwatches Pixel Watch 4 (but it only runs WearOS).
[1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soulscircuit/pilet-open...
7 hours is not bad, considering my iPhone 13 mini can only last for day with occasional usage.
Librem 5 and Pinephone didn't fail to deliver.
Would have thought after their ups and downs they would have landedon a sustainable businesss model. The market oppurtunity is there and the timing is favourable. All thats needed to stick the landing and have a viable alt to the ios/android duoploly.
Personally would recommend they work with an established OEM to customize/port drivers to existing hardware and market to a specific vertical rather than a general purpose for normies device.
Instead with the SonyX offerings , they linited it to a tiny range, upgrades as i recall were sometimes not possible to newer versions and a separate support contract to Jollla was needed.
A pure play ala android would do better, they (jolla) do the software - the OEM does the hardware/updates similarly to how Linux distros like Ubuntu get bundled into Dell etc.
If they were a hardware firm like Huawei bulding their phone and OS makes sense , or with massive scale like Google with Pixel.They are neither. Hardware is hard, and scaling it at volume moreso.
If you spend development time on the ecosystem, I could maybe pay your voucher (the 99€ downpayment part), then you can get the hardware on release at the discounted price they offer for backers
Edit: I'll probably miss any replies here. Email me on (rot13) wbyyn99@ytzf.ay. I'm offering this because imo it's important to have an alternative ecosystem to Android, considering the developments in the last year where it's becoming more like iOS. Other developers who are short on funds who read this should also feel free to reach out, though I'm not some super wealthy investor I can see about what I can do
(and I've also made apps for things I'm missing on SFOS (Pushover client, Bluesky client), so Hi5!)
sus
I don't think it is a good idea to call this a "privacy switch", obviously it works in software and can't be trusted.
my lenovo laptop has a physical privacy switch for the camera... it's literally a piece of plastic that covers the lens, no way to bypass that (without physical access). I feel safe.
If it can be enabled in software, it can be disabled in software, and I don't trust software.
Nevertheless, I hope they succeed.
imho, linux users should focus on phones well supported by postmarketos
And SFOS can also run natively like on the PinePhone.
Headphone jack has been a hard line for me. Having recently moved into the world of wireless charging (I keep a phone 5-7 years and just missed wireless charging being normalized on my last phone purchase back in 2020) I think using the USB port for headphone is finally visible.
I spend a lot of the day with my headphones on and the phone on the wireless charging puck. Not being forced to choose between charging and headphones changes the equation.
In this post headphone jack world I use a fiio Bluetooth/USB DAC that's really good quality. But it's about the size of two ipod nanos stacked on top of each other.
In 2017 there came investors, among others ROS Telecom, a Russion telecom provider. They pivoted to only providing software, mainly on Sony phones. That is still ongoing.
Since the Russia - Ukraine war the Russion investors went MIA. The Finnish people from Jolla started a new company and had all assets moved to that company. They are now trying to rebuild the company and apparently extend into hardware again, even though the PCB design is off the shelf.
I have been a user since 2014 and am quite happy with their offering. It offers ssh root access if you want. Optionally manually installing software. Very much a GNU/Linux experience. Privacy focused and user oriented. And now slowly but surely there are parts of the software being opensourced.
I always thought SailfishOS would really take off by now, given how advanced and polished it already was at the time, but Jolla's mismanagement nearly jeopardised the whole thing (they filed for bankruptcy last year).
1 - the native browser being an old firefox/gecko fork embedded into their own UI framework, giving a poor performance and dated compatibility quirks 2 - the android emulating runtime meant that you get again, dated , poorly performing android apps, that you're driven towards because the browser engine was so poor.
these two mean you basically end up with a sub-standard android handset/UI, and a tiny market for native app development (because everyone made do with android), its a real chicken/egg.
In fairness I've not used it since the sony XPeria days, but it was my daily phone for 3-4 years since the Jolla 1. It was cool being able to emacs and irc natively on the phone, but that was limited in use cases tbh.
The last two bullets of their FAQ:
Will the Jolla Phone work outside Europe, can I use it e.g. in the U.S.?
Yes, we will design the cellular band configuration to enable global travelling as much as possible, including e.g. roaming in the U.S. carrier networks.
Can I buy the Jolla Phone if I’m outside Europe, can I use it e.g. in the U.S.?
The initial sales markets are EU, UK, Switzerland and Norway. Entering other markets, such as the U.S. and Canada are to be decided due course based on potential interest from the areas.
I have no confidence in it working constantly on a new OS like this.
Is this something generally understood to be a down payment in EU nomenclature? Just curiosity, as in the US I'd generally expect it to mean you get a phone on launch for the stated price, and a down payment to use something along the lines of "reserve for...".
Jolla used the crowd-funding campaign to butter up VCs for their next funding round [3] and then decided the Asian LLC handling the crowdfunding would go bankrupt, leaving backers with no tablets and most with no refund. [4]
The real kicker was that the tablets were ALREADY manufactured by their ODM, Jolla just never paid them. Took backers money and stiffed their manufacturing partner too. For a while after the campaign folded you could buy Jolla branded tablets (running Android, it was just an ODM model they flashed Sailfish on) on eBay or Taobao [5]. I just checked and there's a Jolla Tablet listed on eBay right now. [6]
10 years later, it looks like they're trying the same thing. Maybe they think the internet has forgotten, but I have zero interest in supporting their next hardware rug-pull endeavour.
[1] https://together.jolla.com/question/97695/information-regard...
[2] https://www.indiegogo.com/en/projects/jolla/jolla-tablet-wor...
[3] https://jolla.com/content/uploads/2017/02/46_JOLLATABLET_STR...
[4] https://blog.jolla.com/second_phase_refund/
[5] https://old.reddit.com/r/Jolla/comments/3x2s7e/jolla_tablets...
I'm pretty sure we eventually all got refunds after they got the Russian cash. My refund came a couple years later iirc, with a check for half the amount coming a few months before the check for the second half.
Or it might have just been their excuse back then - if you have some newer details of how it actually all went down with the tablet, please do share! :-)
I guess they'll start PR once the phone is funded.
There's a Sailfish help page [0] showing how to get the APK from Aptoide, or downloading directly from Whatsapp.com .
But with Google killing off 'sideloading', is it credible that independent APK sources are going to dry up in future?
[0] https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Help_Articles/Whatsapp_S...
Of course, this doesn't mean that the downloaded app will work on such a device (if it doesn't have Google Play Services), but at least it lets you download the app, which isn't much different from downloading it from say, APK Mirror. And as long as you can extract the apps from either the Play Store or Android devices itself (via adb/root etc), I'm assuming sites like APK Mirror will continue to exist.
Installed it from Aurora, an open source frontend to the Play Store.
Biggest pain-points for me with AppSupport is:
1. Lack of Bluetooth passthrough in a sane way (community workaround results in it being unavailable with host OS). 2. It does not report to apps that PIN entry is enabled, meaning some awful but important apps like Danske ID don't work.
Otherwise it does the job remarkably well. Still prefer native SFOS apps when available, however it is a small ecosystem and so depending on your usecase you may find yourself installing Android apps.
Yes it is.
And yes, I do have Signal installed, and there are only 2 people who talk to me through it (one being my partner).
Phone carriers got too greedy charging for every single SMS message and phone call, WhatsApp took over when smartphones became popular.
If someone from jolla reads this: Just hire DHH as your hypeman, he’ll be able to sell anything to lemmings.
I hope instead it's governed by a principal of people's privacy.
I dont understand how ex-Nokia devs could have built a phone like the N900 and then just walked away from it for 15 years
Don't forget that SailfishOS is ultimately Linux (and not like Android) - it even comes with the zypper package manager that lets you install apps and update the OS using the terminal. Part of the fun of using SailfishOS is doing familiar Linux systems managements and general operations the terminal, which any Linux nerd would love. And Linux nerds make up a huge userbase of this OS.
I mean, look at the link OP pasted, they're straight up calling it a "Linux phone", it's clear who their audience is. And don't tell me majority of Linux users would NOT prefer to have a keyboard.
Keyboard phones are a great thing, but not as the sole option for a company. As a second current model, sure.
But yes, the N900 was pre-slidey-smartphone peak brilliance.
What I would like is apps to pervasively support a keyboard. For instance, in most Android messaging apps, you can't even press "enter" to send a message, so if you want to use a physical keyboard, you have to type the message and then poke the screen to send.
does anyone own this 2013 version? why did it not crash the market?
Also, will my banking app be supported on sailfishOS?
Why did it not set the wolrd on fire back then ? Ruthless monopoly building on both Google and Apple side IMHO.
It's a great success Jolla still exists and does its thing. :-)
Microsoft spent a lot of money and resources trying to compete and failed.
Android/Apple just started early enough and by 2012 it was too late as most consumers have decided. To enter this market you have to be truly unique or else you are just copying the competitor and why would users switch if they are happy enough?
Is that really a monopoly if you had a third competitor come in and try?
(I have a Jolla 1 and a Jolla C sitting in a drawer, now I fully switched to Graphene OS.)
- Annoying glass back that scratches immediately and slides out of your hand- "just put a case on it"
- Undersized battery that won't last a day - "you can buy a case with a battery"
- The phone wobbles when you lay it on a desk or nightstand - "most people use a case anyway"
If we're meant to make our phones twice as thick, why not sell it in that form factor? Stuff that extra battery in there, make the backside grippy, and have it be able to lay down without being like a 4-legged chair where 1 leg is longer
I've never used a case on any phone. They're big enough as it is (in the xy dimensions). I did try it out of necessity when needing 2 phones in 1 pocket (work and private phone) for a week during a work trip. It's doable but just why
It is not trumping Graphene any time soon.
And they usually don't provide a suitable alternative, as actually secure solution based on something like a yubikey.
I've always done banking from the browser since I got access to any banking at all (probably when I was 16, ~15 years ago). Not sure what I'm supposed to be missing out on with these apps that don't work on many user-controlled devices (be it Linux-based or rooted Android). Log in with chip+pin for my Dutch bank (primary account), and a perplexing combination of high-entropy username, password, 2 randomly asked digits of a 5-digit PIN, a color code that you scan with the hardware device which needs another 5-digit PIN, and then typing over the 8-digit confirmation code. German efficiency! But I barely use that account anyway
TLDR: while the OS is great (really GREAT), the real-world compatibility is not.
I had Sailfish OS for a daily driver for two years, and OS is great (let me say that again, Sailfish IS GREAT!), but there are "the details".
Jolla is completely ignorant to needs of their users. While they do have an android layer, they are ignoring to things that are of huge importance for daily life, like bluetooth passtrough, and are important due to daily needs, for instance, bluetooth passtrough is really important for using public transport here.
FFS, I was reversing banking application and patching it to be able to use it. And actually became very good at it :D
Here is a bluetooth feature request thread, that is open for 5 years: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/bluetooth-support-in-android and being blatantly ignored.
And lets not get into details, like NFC.
So at the end you will have a great OS, incompatible with the whole world. After 2 years of suffering, I ditched Sailfish, bought Pixel and installed Graphene OS.
Once Jolla starts to listen to their customers, they are on the path to very real android contender, but unfortunately they just dont understand, that people need some features, they are not providing while the vendors wont support some exotic OS. They need to adapt, not vendors - the whole thread is full of this mentality.
The android "container" was a step into right direction but they just shouldnt abandone it and keep on supporting it, adding additional layers of compatibility.
I really hope they will change their mind at some point and prioritize compatibility, would love to ditch android and its spyware driven ecosystem completely, but sadly, Graphene OS + NetGuard is just a far better alternative until Jolla stops behaving like an infant. They are literally sabotaging themself in a worse possible way.
Blaming they can't keep up with user requests, granted reasonable ones, is a little short sighted in my opinion. If we want to break the Apple/Google duopoly we need to be able to bear a couple of paper cuts. If you wait for perfection before committing they'll just end up going out of business. :(
I have struggled for 2 years. Most users wont.
Both are European companys with a great privacy drive.
The only possible button is agree, but to read what you're agreeing to, you need to click agree first because this overlay also spawns on the privacy policy page that's linked from the cookie wall
The privacy information is also only available in German
10/10 privacy drive
Another crucial point is to push for open standards for those apps that only work on Android or iOS.
You'd say that most people don't know about Linux phones, but for those who know, Volla running Ubuntu is pretty well known, at least in Europe.
If my phone died today, I still have a company-given one that I never use. I'd just ask my org to give or sell it to me for personal use.
Fool me twice shame on me.
Jolla never shipped me a tablet or offered me a refund back when they were making tablets. I would strongly urge people not to pre-order from the company since they have a track record of not shipping and being extremely irresponsible in their communications when they dont ship.
An email I have stored from July 4th 2017 mentions "the tablet refund tool", so there seems to have been a concrete system for this refunding process as well. I abstractly remember something like that, though I must say my memory is shoddy and should not be trusted.
----------------
Hi,
thank you for your message.
We are sending the invites out to contributors in groups according to the chronological order of contributions. Please also note that we are slowly ramping up the deliveries, starting with a smaller group to ensure that everything works as it should, but anticipate future groups to be bigger in size. This means that we are currently unable to estimate your exact order number in the queue.
To read all the latest on the Tablet campaign, please stay tuned to the Jolla Blog. For some commonly asked questions and answers, please see our Jolla Tablet Campaign FAQs.
Thank you again for your contribution!
Sincerely, Jolla Customer Care
Operating hours: Monday to Friday from 9.00 - 17.00 GMT +2; close weekends and public holidays (Finland).
Join the Movement @ jolla.com Like us on Facebook @ jollaofficial Follow on Twitter @ jollaHQ Dive deeper into the Jolla world @ Official Jolla Blog
If Nokia hadn't been intentionally destroyed by its board in a romance with Microsoft cash, through a Canadian snake, Maemo would have been a real contender. You can get an vague idea what it looked like from here: https://maemo-leste.github.io/
Also, I don't know what's motivating you to just make negative shit up from whole cloth. Where did Linux touch you?
I once asked David Potter what happened post-symbian, and he smiled and shrugged
Look at the TODOs for Maemo Leste, which you just referenced. "Phone calls should work, with audio, when alsamixer is set up properly". That is F-tier user experience. OpenMoko-level garbage.
