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0 pointsDerbasti3mo ago0 comments

- Visual Studio project files are XML files that are interpreted line by line, and can contain variables, branches, and loops. Hell on earth.

0 comments

pjmlp3mo ago

They are badly copied Ant build files.

Ant came first, then when Microsoft redid the VS project format, they created MSBuild.

As incredible as it may sound, Ant is still easier to deal with than MSBuild.

giamma3mo ago

Ant did not include IF THEN ELSE, unless you added the contrib package.

If you understood the paradigm, you could write branches in Ant files simply using properties and guards on properties ("unless"). Using IF in Ant was basically admission of not having understood Ant.

This said, I used Ant for a very limited amount of time.

pjmlp3mo ago

It sure did, you use conditions, no need for contrib.

https://ant.apache.org/manual/Tasks/condition.html

The else part is easily done by repeating and negating the condition.

Two other advantages of Ant that MSBuild lacks in a sane way to this day, are macros, and proper documentation.

1 more reply

mrsmrtss3mo ago

The legacy version of MSBuild was really bad, but the modern MSBuild project files for .NET are actually quite concise and clean by default?

pjmlp3mo ago

Only if you are happy with defaults and don't require any build logic.

Also you forgot MSBuild is used for everything, not only .NET.

1 more reply

spooky_deep3mo ago

Horrible. Would’ve been much nicer if they’d reached for Scheme.

debugnik3mo ago

You say that, but people in OCaml keep bemoaning the use of mostly declarative s-expressions in the Dune build system. Imagine the reaction if MSBuild used an actual Scheme.

jimbokun3mo ago

Why doesn't the OCaml build system use OCaml?

1 more reply

spooky_deep3mo ago

They don’t know how good they really have it :)

Xelbair3mo ago

what's even worse that schema uses extremely generic types with attributes denoting actual type.

Makes reading it even harder, and any possible constraints due to type safety go out of the window, so we get worst of both worlds.

shevy-java3mo ago

Wesnoth the game also has that via WML. Looks very ugly and obfuscated.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

pjmlp3mo ago

They are badly copied Ant build files.

Ant came first, then when Microsoft redid the VS project format, they created MSBuild.

As incredible as it may sound, Ant is still easier to deal with than MSBuild.

giamma3mo ago

Ant did not include IF THEN ELSE, unless you added the contrib package.

This said, I used Ant for a very limited amount of time.

pjmlp3mo ago

It sure did, you use conditions, no need for contrib.

https://ant.apache.org/manual/Tasks/condition.html

The else part is easily done by repeating and negating the condition.

Two other advantages of Ant that MSBuild lacks in a sane way to this day, are macros, and proper documentation.

1 more reply

mrsmrtss3mo ago

The legacy version of MSBuild was really bad, but the modern MSBuild project files for .NET are actually quite concise and clean by default?

pjmlp3mo ago

Only if you are happy with defaults and don't require any build logic.

Also you forgot MSBuild is used for everything, not only .NET.

1 more reply

spooky_deep3mo ago

Horrible. Would’ve been much nicer if they’d reached for Scheme.

debugnik3mo ago

You say that, but people in OCaml keep bemoaning the use of mostly declarative s-expressions in the Dune build system. Imagine the reaction if MSBuild used an actual Scheme.

jimbokun3mo ago

Why doesn't the OCaml build system use OCaml?

1 more reply

spooky_deep3mo ago

They don’t know how good they really have it :)

Xelbair3mo ago

what's even worse that schema uses extremely generic types with attributes denoting actual type.

Makes reading it even harder, and any possible constraints due to type safety go out of the window, so we get worst of both worlds.

shevy-java3mo ago

Wesnoth the game also has that via WML. Looks very ugly and obfuscated.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse