undefined | Better HN

0 pointscosmic_cheese3mo ago0 comments

I think Nissan is a bit underrated here. I’m leasing an Ariya which has been great (including its charging curve, which is better than much of the competition) and feels more premium than you’d expect from the brand (to the point that the top trim is sometimes referred to as a “baby Infiniti”) with things like dual pane windows to cut down on road noise, as well as a proper heat pump where many still only have resistive heaters.

The 2026 Leaf takes many of the Ariya’s good qualities and one ups them at one of the lowest price points in the industry.

And both can be parked in spots that no model of Tesla will fit. The 3, Y, etc aren’t even a consideration for me since they won’t fit my garage. Tesla badly needs a proper small hatch option.

0 comments

dmix3mo ago

> The 2026 Leaf takes many of the Ariya’s good qualities and one ups them at one of the lowest price points in the industry.

Still costs $30k+ USD for base trim. Chinese cars are going for sub-$20k. Few governments want a repeat of the Japanese disruption of US/European car manufacturing, so they were banned before getting the opportunity.

alephnerd3mo ago

Household incomes are also much lower in China compared to Western countries. The kind of upper line BYD EV model that would appear to be a discount to a Western buyer is fairly unaffordable in a country where the median household incomes are around Yuan 2-3k (US$300-500) a month.

A US$15,000 car is equally as unaffordable for most Chinese just as a US$100,000 car is for most Americans.

Heck, the median household in China only spent Yuan 4k (~US$550) a year [0] on transportation and telecom (the Chinese government chose to club both into a single bracket) in 2024 - meaning at least 50% of Chinese households cannot afford the vast majority of EVs domestically sold in China.

[0] - https://www.stats.gov.cn/english/PressRelease/202501/t202501...

rswail3mo ago

Australia managed to destroy its car industry on its own.

The latest BYD Atto 1 is AUD27K including all on-road costs.

Tesla 3 base model is AUD60K, BYD Seal base model is AUD50K.

You guys are missing out big time by not allowing Chinese cars.

dzhiurgis3mo ago

Atto1 is like half size of model 3 tho.

1 more reply

cosmic_cheeseOP3mo ago

I’d love to see a ~$20k EV too, but it’s gonna be tough to pull that off without China’s cheap labor and materials, at least until EVs start moving at the kind of volumes that traditional ICE and hybrid vehicles sell at.

olyjohn3mo ago

We're never going to see a $20k car in the US again. Why would they sell any car for $20k, when they could sell it for $30k like they are doing now? They make more money selling fewer cars at higher prices, so no manufacturers are interested.

stoneforger3mo ago

https://evmagazine.com/news/how-chinas-byd-is-using-ai-to-sc... , it's automation and vertical integration. It shows what was always possible if companies focused on product instead of stock buybacks. Fuck Jack Welch.

rswail3mo ago

Nothing to do with cheap labor/materials and everything to do with a very integrated and highly sophisticated and competitive supply chain.

alephnerd3mo ago

Prices are always set in a manner in order to optimize for margins.

Heck, the Volvo EX30 is for all intents and purposes a Zeekr X, yet sells for US$40k a year in Australia despite Australia having an automotive FTA with China (ie. no tariffs against Chinese exported cars).

On the other hand, a similarly specced Zeekr X sells for US$24k a year in Mainland China.

Tl;dr - you will never see a $20k EV in the US or Canada because even if a Chinese firm was allowed to export into the market, they would be leaving too much money on the table.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointscosmic_cheese3mo ago0 comments

The 2026 Leaf takes many of the Ariya’s good qualities and one ups them at one of the lowest price points in the industry.

And both can be parked in spots that no model of Tesla will fit. The 3, Y, etc aren’t even a consideration for me since they won’t fit my garage. Tesla badly needs a proper small hatch option.

0 comments

dmix3mo ago

> The 2026 Leaf takes many of the Ariya’s good qualities and one ups them at one of the lowest price points in the industry.

alephnerd3mo ago

A US$15,000 car is equally as unaffordable for most Chinese just as a US$100,000 car is for most Americans.

[0] - https://www.stats.gov.cn/english/PressRelease/202501/t202501...

rswail3mo ago

Australia managed to destroy its car industry on its own.

The latest BYD Atto 1 is AUD27K including all on-road costs.

Tesla 3 base model is AUD60K, BYD Seal base model is AUD50K.

You guys are missing out big time by not allowing Chinese cars.

dzhiurgis3mo ago

Atto1 is like half size of model 3 tho.

1 more reply

cosmic_cheeseOP3mo ago

olyjohn3mo ago

stoneforger3mo ago

rswail3mo ago

Nothing to do with cheap labor/materials and everything to do with a very integrated and highly sophisticated and competitive supply chain.

alephnerd3mo ago

Prices are always set in a manner in order to optimize for margins.

On the other hand, a similarly specced Zeekr X sells for US$24k a year in Mainland China.

Tl;dr - you will never see a $20k EV in the US or Canada because even if a Chinese firm was allowed to export into the market, they would be leaving too much money on the table.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse