But then again, I dont use facebook, dropbox or gmail for the same reason. (Instead I use selfhosted solutions.) So I am an unimportant minority. Its a pity that the trend with new solutions is towards use of centralization instead of decetralization, which gave us Internet, email and even parlament democracy. As I sad before, if email were to be invented today it would be single company's project backed by YC that would rule us all.
So you can still use the hardware even if you don't like their software.
Given the portability of the device, it's doubtful that lockitron even knows what it's unlocking at any given time.
Maybe having your locks NAT out or phone home to a third party is a bit much for a lot of people, as it opens new vectors, but you know, bricks and windows and such.
That also varies on whether you drive a car or take public transportation.
If you drive, leaving your house requires taking your keys and it becomes a habit. Same with leaving work. If you drove there you need your keys to leave.
A good way around forgetting keys also is a realtor style lockbox either on the door or hidden with a spare key.
The key (heh) to not forgetting anything, though, is to have a consistent set of pockets for things -- I always keep keys+knife, flashlight, wallet+cash, iphone in specific pockets. The only times I get screwed up is when I wear clothing without the right layout of pockets.
So while I love the convenience this idea provides for shared access to places, and for frictionless don't-even-have-to-get-out-my-keys access, locking oneself out is a solved problem in my book. (Sure, I could lose my keys, but I could also lose my phone—and the redundancy here is another nice and fun thing provided by this system.)
(This habit was largely inspired by getting a car which refused to let me lock myself out: if I pushed the lock button down on the driver's door while the door was open, and then shut the door, it unlocked itself. Previously I'd had one where you held the handle out to override this behavior, but this one insisted on being locked from the outside. And then I noticed that this was keeping my from locking myself out like I had a few times with the old one.)
I ALWAYS have my phone though. Quite frankly, I look forward to the day when my phone replaces my access badge/key-card at work.
Of course there is the arguement "but someone could take your phone and access the MDF!" -- well they can always steal my access badge as well.
I have forgotten my badge countless times in my career though I have forgotten my phone all of once.
"Empirically people are a lot less likely to forget their phone than to forget keys..."
Especially with the PhoneWallet. I have my keycard, ID, and ORCA all conveniently on the back of my phone. The same tap gets me into work and pays bus fares. If I didn't have to carry a car key, I would just carry that 1 item.
http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/13/lockitron-lets-you-unlock-y...
It's differently (visually) than the version that is on the website now but, it's certainly a Lockitron lock which I purchased almost a year ago.
Looks like they are rebooting their company with a new model and fundraising via Kickstarter.
>based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic
Also, BT 4.0 LE is perfect for this -- since there's no NFC in the iPhone 5, I suspect BT 4.0 LE will end up taking the place of NFC for a lot of "heavier duty" NFC applications -- not that the Bluetooth protocol is great or elegant, but it's a lot easier to work with than NFC, and now BT 4.0 LE exists on both major smartphone platforms.
All my earlier criticism of not having a local ACL and local RF communication to the lock, vs. going to/from the Internet, is now resolved.
The only thing they're missing is a BT 4.0 LE dongle (which I've seen on Kickstarter called "hone" http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/690528216/hone-for-iphon... -- you could put that on your keyring and use it as an expensive HID proxcard replacement. Same thing works for electronic leash.
Now all they need to do is support 5-10 locksets in some kind of private/small business network (vs. putting in a HID access control system), for 0-99 users, and they'll be really innovative. Managing a single door with 0-5 people is comparatively easy; managing an office with turnover is a lot harder, and businesses would happily pay $1-2k for a system to cover their doors and employees with a nice LDAP/AD/FB/etc. interface.
Since you can upload your own firmware, it would be entirely possible for a customer to build this.
your phone working
2.4 Ghz
your internet connection
your power
their datacenter
their website software
anyone in the area could easily ddos off your wireless more or less permanently by spamming disconnect.
doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me.
whats the problem with a more traditional (read local) keyless approach? door too thick?
Gas to run
You making sure everything is well maintained
Expensive vs biking
Auto mechanics needed if your car breaks down
Doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me.
Kidding aside, you must not have read very carefully, since it has NFC and Bluetooth as backups. The DDOS scenario would require a targeted attack, and wouldn't render it useless anyways as per the above. The device works for renters who can't change their lock, but still want some convenience.
Yes, it has some drawbacks. But I think it is an incredibly well thought out device that I'm jumping on.
Duplicate the a key (drawback: requires original key) Steal car when open (drawback: not many people leave there car open)
How could you break in a key
> (...)
> their datacenter
> their website software
This is a thing I find increasingly bewildering/disturbing about new hacks like that. Why do we route signals around the whole world to communicate two devices that are few meters apart? Also, having to go through third party's computer infrastructure sounds like a huge waste of resources. Bluetooth, NFC or WLANs are the tools we should be using.
The device has BT4, but that doesn't mean there is no value in the wifi.
a. Remote entry -- unlock your door from afar. b. A nice home automation system (mine's expanded to control lights and thermostat now) c. Keypad and key-entry as backups
I love it. Being able to remotely lock and unlock your doors is super handy, whether it be for guests, contractors or what not. But what's really handy? Never worrying about locking yourself out of your house again.
If I could just get rid of my car key, I'd be thrilled.
We're headed towards the Internet of Things but right now they're all sort of talking with their own software. A house with the Nest thermometer and the Lockitron lock won't be able to execute on the scenario I described above -- and if you're a homeowner you may want to think more long term than investing in one-off solutions for every latest thing a chip goes in to.
I'm really excited about this -- I've always wanted to do this for my door, but as a renter I can't exactly just change the locks without my landlord being pretty disapproving.
http://consumer.schlage.com/Products/Pages/category-landing....
I had a 4 digit Master lock in 7th grade, and an 8th grader spent a little bit of time with the lock, determined the passcode (chosen at random), and then changed the combination.
I wouldn't put one of these locks on my home, or on anything that I wanted to actually "lock"
Home door locks are a deterrent more than anything else, so I'd opt for convenience.
I also have an RFID fob to get in my building and I need to type a code in to my elevator to get to my floor, so I'm not too worried about it.
I did get a look and was going to make a comment (which I wanted to verify) that the site in no way shows that the company had built another product (at least not from a quick look).
Now I can't even get a look at the site. This isn't 1996. Why are people having so many issues with delivering simple reliability to a 1 page website?
One of the biggest improvements, not offered by the Lockitron, is the lack of needing to fumble in your pockets for anything. If you've got a handful of groceries, it's much easier to shift a bag or two to get a hand free and punch the code than it is to go digging in your pockets.
Did you watch the full video? This version of Lockitron has proximity-based keyless entry like some cars do. No need to reach into your pockets or punch in a code.
*I hate it when people say that so I'll expand. Simply put, I'm worried about it getting hacked. For instance, could you gain access to someone's wifi and then flash a new image (which includes a rogue key) onto the device?
The standard for secure facilities is 24x7 monitoring and roving patrols which are frequent enough to prevent defeating the lock/door initially. If it takes 1h to cut through a vault door, and you do patrols every 15 minutes, it doesn't matter as much that once you compromise the door, you can subvert the lock for future access.
That said, there's more potential to make an electronic locking system (and seal/tamper evidence) really secure than there is to make a mechanical keylock secure -- keylocks are basically deprecated for even moderately high security, and mechanical combination locks for high security -- the future is all electronic systems with online checking of credentials. A system like lockitron has a lot of room to grow.
The weaker component is the (still available as a backup entry method) keyhole. A year ago, my neighbor locked herself out. I found out that she also had a Schlage lock and figured I'd try to help. After finding my disused bump key, I had sprung her lock after about twenty whacks. My total experience was two hours of practice three years ago. I don't consider myself to be uniquely skilled here.
Personally, I'd prefer a mechanism that would allow me to eliminate the key entirely. I'd rather live with the risk of battery drain/malfunction/phone loss.
"However, if you would like to access Lockitron only via your local network, then we welcome you to flash your base-station with a new image that gives you full access to develop as you see fit"
Obviously I've done about as much research as you so far, so it's very possible the scenario that I describe is unlikely. The point of my initial post was simply to reflect on the fact that in some cases I'd love to use this, and in other cases, maybe not so much.
Interesting.. so you don't even need the money for the first production run, pure crowd-hype marketing. Also very ballsy of YC to sidestep kickstarter like this.. although i suppose 1000 pre-sales isn't huge.
As for the product, some nice feature improvements over v1.0, although i'm not a fan of the new plasticy design-- i would not want to see that thing on my door unless I had to, for any price.
what do you mean by 'ballsy to sidestep kickstarter.' has kickstarter become some kind of sole-arbiter of product development? FWIW, if this style of e-commerce continues, someone should develop the API for this/app.net type of sales instead of each building the billing system from scratch.
It could be more clear that the lockitron does two very interesting things, I had to watch the video to figure them out:
- knock detection via microphone so you know someone is at the door (awesome)
- auto-unlock based on nearby phone presence (presumably bluetooth) so you can just walk into your house.
If it works like it's supposed to, this is seriously great.
And when I actually do want to open it remotely, I get a call with a code I can enter. In other words, some sort of 2 step authentication.
And I want to be notified by the app every time that door opens if I am not using the app right then to open it.
Incidentally, this is also just a workaround. It's a hack. It's likely not to work in all homes or with all locks.
Moreover, this thing will likely look out of place and fairly undesirable on most doors, especially on older buildings.
An actual installable lock would be incredibly more compelling due to the fact that it will be less bulky and intrusive.
I would want to understand how Lockitron might use and secure my lock-usage, location, and other personal information before using the device and service to lock anything important, like my office or my house.
1. Wow, that device must have a lot of torque as many deadbolts, mine for example, actually requires some effort to turn, either to lock or unlock. This resistance is caused mainly by the springiness of the weather stripping which pushes back against the door when it is closed.
2. Sometimes, when sunlight falls upon—and heats—the door I need to push or pull slightly on the door in order to turn the deadbolt at all. The door is not dimensionally stable and deadbolt alignment changes. This makes me think that the system would not be reliable. I know my door and deadbolt are not unique in this regard.
Too slow! Well played, Lockitron.
Granted the risk there seems small, basically limited to people without a smart phone who are also in the market for a smart gadget like this.
It is good to see that this is disabled by default, but it seems like a really unnecessary security hole.
However -
- Your website is much to slow. - Remove the whois privacy from your domain. You're a business with a business address. No reason to hide your business location.
We poll infrequently during off hours and more frequently when people are likely to be coming and going. Knocking also wakes it up.
Bluetooth 4.0 gets us the rest of the way. It's instant for iPhone 4s and 5 users and we should have rudimentary support for the Android devices with BT4 by March.
This product can be about much more than solving the problem of forgetting your keys. People with limited dexterity (such as my father, a quadriplegic) would love a product like this. When leaving the house, he would be able to make a few taps on an iPad to lock things up. Right now we don't use a lock because it's behind a garage door, but this would allow us much more flexibility.
Regardless, I'm a fan. The fact that granting and revoking access is so trivial meant that when I was an intern I still had full ability to come and go regardless of the presence of a fulltimer (contrasting with other internships, where hesitance to give interns keys meant if I showed up too early I had to sit on my butt till someone arrived to let me in).
I also hope they salt their password hashes.
One issue with the video around 0:40... Lockitron really needs to buy their hardware engineers some eye protection and magnification devices. You should never solder up close like that without eye protection. What they show in the video probably violates OSHA guidelines.
Don't know why they don't do it like that instead of having to send a text...
Will Sense work with multiple phones at a time?
http://today.ucf.edu/ucf-engineering-alum-lands-500000-deal-...
http://abc.go.com/watch/shark-tank/SH559076/VD55203511/week-...
I love the idea of this device, but I also love seeing locks defeated.
A year from now if my phone runs out of battery, I am homeless. :)
Also, with normal keys if you lose one you have to replace the cylinder and all the keys if you're worried about someone using the lost key. This would prevent that expense.
I will say, though: if $150 is the discount price, i'm afraid to learn what the regular price is. Businesses seem like the only place this becomes cost effective.
I hadn't thought about the multiple people access problem since I've never needed more than one set of guest keys at a time, and the offices I've worked in were all big enough to use keycards.
Come to think of it, the market for 'Needs to give multiple people rotating revocable access' is a great fit for AirBnB type services.
I could see spending $150 to get similar functionality plus the ability to unlock my home remotely and check the state of the lock on the only door I enter/exit from.
My family shares a vacation home up north and I'm tempted to buy this for there as well. Because of its proximity to town (two blocks walk) we've already had plenty of trouble with people locking themselves out because they're not taking their car to the tavern in town and simply forgot their keys in the process. We'd have to get in the habit of only using the deadbolt, or replace the door handle with a non-locking door handle, but it might be worth it to me.
Things should never be priced based on actual expense unless your margins are infinitely slim.
It simply doesn't solve a problem I have, and at $150, I'm not likely to give it a shot to see if locking my doors manually is really that much of an inconvenience (I doubt it is). I might pay $50, but even then that's a stretch because, as I said, it doesn't solve a problem I've got.
Given that the device claims to work with almost any deadbolt, and therefore can't be too picky about shape, my guess is it wouldn't be hard to adapt it for your lock. (Just permanently install a key with some handle attached to it for the device to grip.)
http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/22/after-surviving-the-shark-t...
It looks like this is compatible with through-hole deadbolts, but not rim deadbolts.