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0 pointsJumpCrisscross7mo ago0 comments

> curious what you think the solution is?

Require a warrant for law enforcement to poll these databases. And make the database operators strictly liable for breaches and mis-use.

For all we know, "suspicious" travel patterns may include visiting a place of religious worship or an abortion clinic. For a future President, it may be parking near the home of someone who tweeted support for a J6'er.

(And we haven't even touched the national security risk Flock poses [1].)

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2025/11/03/lawmakers-say-stolen-polic...

0 comments

10 comments · 3 top-level

kragen7mo ago· 4 in thread

Are you also going to require a warrant for paramilitary insurgent groups to poll these databases? Maybe you intended to propose for them to be abolished entirely.

ruined7mo ago

paramilitary insurgent groups are abolished, actually. it is illegal to operate a paramilitary insurgent group. this is the main way they prevent groups from doing paramilitary insurrection.

that, and most military actions are also illegal, if you're not a member of the military following lawful orders. so there's not much paramilitary stuff one can do. and insurgency is like... outlawed

JumpCrisscrossOP7mo ago

> Are you also going to require a warrant for paramilitary insurgent groups to poll these databases?

No. Because this is a straw man.

> Maybe you intended to propose for them to be abolished entirely

Banks operate with liability for losses resulting from breaches. Unless Flock et al are routinly losing their entire database, this shouldn't be exisential.

pseudalopex7mo ago

> Banks operate with liability for losses resulting from breaches.

Not enough.

> Unless Flock et al are routinly losing their entire database, this shouldn't be exisential.

The risk of misuse by future governments is too great even if Flock's security was perfect. And allowing anything less than routinely losing the entire database is unreasonably lax even if you don't believe Flock is too risky to exist.

kragen7mo ago

It isn't a straw man; paramilitary insurgent groups will just look like normal customers to Flock et al., except when they're stealing their entire database, which will indeed happen routinely.

1 more reply

rootusrootus7mo ago· 3 in thread

> Require a warrant for law enforcement to poll these databases.

This seems so uncontroversial I don't know why we haven't collectively decided to implement it. Though I get that the folks in power probably don't support it. We could easily decide that law enforcement data gathering warrant requirements are not so simple to circumvent. Maybe we should largely abolish third party doctrine.

pempem7mo ago

Collectively decide and easily are carrying lots of weight here.

Americans (citizens that is) have held fairly consistent opinions on healthcare, guns, education, war and yet very little changes because all voices are in fact, not equal. We are not collectively deciding. There are massive thumbs on the scale, often in favor of private profit that keep things as they are now.

Some might even, surprise surprise, be owned by the companies investing in the companies that use this technology.

This is, as the OP noted, a gross invasion of privacy and not avoidable in a country that largely requires cars and their registration for day to day life.

rootusrootus7mo ago

> Collectively decide and easily are carrying lots of weight here.

I agree. The problem is that we do not decide collectively on issues, we decide on representatives. And while a supermajority might agree, for example, that single payer healthcare is good, they may not all prioritize it the same way amongst a number of issues they are concerned about. And in the end, they get a very limited number of candidates to choose from, none of whom are likely to 100% match their priorities and choices.

So the politicians focus on the few issues that really will get people to pull the lever for them. Abortion being an obvious one. Health care doesn't have a strong enough consensus and priority combo to make it happen.

sokoloff7mo ago

> Americans (citizens that is) have held fairly consistent opinions on healthcare, guns, education

We have? That’s news to me on all three topics.

The bubble of Americans an individual commonly associates with might have fairly aligned opinions, but Americans as a set don’t hold a consistent/aligned opinion in these areas IME.

ragebol7mo ago

Why not also require a permit for gathering the data in the first place? Tied to a very specific purpose of what to do with the data obtained?

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