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0 pointstestdelacc16mo ago0 comments

Acolytes being the people talking positively about their experience using a language and the strengths they think it has. So the people with positive opinions should say nothing at all, and the people with negative opinions should be free to share. And somehow, you think this will lead to faster adoption.

That’s an interesting thought. It would run counter to everything we know about human nature, but interesting nevertheless.

Rust is already pretty successful adoption wise. It’s powering significant parts of the internet, it’s been introduced in 3 major operating systems (Windows, Linux, Android), many successful companies in a variety of domains have written their entire tech stack in it. Adoption as measured by crates.io downloads has doubled every year for the last 10 years.

Now I’m imagining how much more widely Rust would be used if they had adopted your visionary approach of never saying anything positive about it.

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lelanthran6mo ago

> Acolytes being the people talking positively about their experience using a language and the strengths they think it has.

No, it's the people who have given rise to the multiple Rust memes over the years.

I'm battling to think of any other about-to-go-mainstream language that had the reputation of a hostile community. Scala? Kotlin? Swift? Zig? None of those languages have built such poor reputations for their communities.

After all, for quite a few years every thread on forums that mentioned C or C++ was derailed by Rust proponents. I didn't see C++ users jumping into Rust threads posting attacks, but there are many examples of Rust users jumping into C++ or C threads, posting attacks.

> That’s an interesting thought. It would run counter to everything we know about human nature, but interesting nevertheless.

Well, the fact that Rust is an outlier in this sample should tell you everything you need to know; other up-and-coming languages have not, in the past, gotten such a reputation.

testdelacc1OP6mo ago

> I'm battling to think of any other about-to-go-mainstream language that had the reputation of a hostile community.

Because you’re young or you weren't around in 2010 when Go was gaining adoption. Same shit back then. People said “I like the language, it’s quite useful” followed by tirades from people who thought it was the end of human civilisation. It had exactly the reputation you speak of. (“DAE generics???”)

Eventually the haters moved on to hating something else. That’s what the Rust haters will do as well. When Zig reaches 1.0 and gains more adoption, the haters will be out in full force.

lelanthran6mo ago

> Because you’re young or you weren't around in 2010 when Go was gaining adoption.

I've been working as a programmer since the mid-90s

>> I'm battling to think of any other about-to-go-mainstream language that had the reputation of a hostile community.

> People said “I like the language, it’s quite useful” followed by tirades from people who thought it was the end of human civilisation.

And? That's not the same as having a hostile community. I never saw Go proponents enter C# or Java discussions to make attacks against the programmers using C# or Java like I saw constantly wirh Rust proponents entering C or C++ discussions and calling the developers dinosaurs, incompetent, etc.

testdelacc1OP6mo ago

> not the same as having a hostile community

Hostile according to who? According to the haters, maybe. I’m sure the Go community was called “hostile” by haters back in the day.

Look at the drama created by Linux maintainers who were being insanely hostile, coming up with spurious objections, being absolute asshats - to the point where even Linus said enough was enough. The Rust for Linux members conducted themselves with dignity throughout. The Linux subsystem maintainers acted like kindergarteners.

But of course, haters will read the same emails and confirmation bias will tell them they’re right and Rust is the problem.

Keep hating.

2 more replies

noisem4ker6mo ago

> I didn't see C++ users jumping into Rust threads posting attacks

There absolutely are, and have been. You could say it's a reaction. I don't want to argue about who started it.

I agree with you that if the Rust community has gained such a peculiar reputation, it's also due to valid reasons.

tempest_6mo ago

From the outside looking in most of the push back against rust seems to be of the "I am too old, never make mistakes, and don't want to learn a new thing late in my career" variety.

I have rarely seen an argument that pushes back against Rust with actual alternative solutions to the problems the rust proponents are trying to solve. It is mostly a bunch of old people letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

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timeon6mo ago

> Scala? Kotlin? Swift? Zig? None of those languages have built such poor reputations for their communities.

> I didn't see C++ users jumping into Rust threads posting attacks, but there are many examples of Rust users jumping into C++ or C threads, posting attacks.

I already seen this with Zig. And even without language communities. Look at this whole thread. Look in to the mirror. Regularly when Rust is mentioned on HN. Anti-Rust cult comes to complain that there is Rust.

Even if someone just posts "I have made this with Rust" - then this cult comes and complains "why do you need to mention Rust?!". Like look at your self. Who hurt you?

lelanthran6mo ago

> Look in to the mirror.

Pointing out that the Rust community has gained such a poor reputation while other communities have not requires "looking into the mirror"?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

lelanthran6mo ago

> Acolytes being the people talking positively about their experience using a language and the strengths they think it has.

No, it's the people who have given rise to the multiple Rust memes over the years.

> That’s an interesting thought. It would run counter to everything we know about human nature, but interesting nevertheless.

Well, the fact that Rust is an outlier in this sample should tell you everything you need to know; other up-and-coming languages have not, in the past, gotten such a reputation.

testdelacc1OP6mo ago

> I'm battling to think of any other about-to-go-mainstream language that had the reputation of a hostile community.

Eventually the haters moved on to hating something else. That’s what the Rust haters will do as well. When Zig reaches 1.0 and gains more adoption, the haters will be out in full force.

lelanthran6mo ago

> Because you’re young or you weren't around in 2010 when Go was gaining adoption.

I've been working as a programmer since the mid-90s

>> I'm battling to think of any other about-to-go-mainstream language that had the reputation of a hostile community.

> People said “I like the language, it’s quite useful” followed by tirades from people who thought it was the end of human civilisation.

testdelacc1OP6mo ago

> not the same as having a hostile community

Hostile according to who? According to the haters, maybe. I’m sure the Go community was called “hostile” by haters back in the day.

But of course, haters will read the same emails and confirmation bias will tell them they’re right and Rust is the problem.

Keep hating.

2 more replies

noisem4ker6mo ago

> I didn't see C++ users jumping into Rust threads posting attacks

There absolutely are, and have been. You could say it's a reaction. I don't want to argue about who started it.

I agree with you that if the Rust community has gained such a peculiar reputation, it's also due to valid reasons.

tempest_6mo ago

From the outside looking in most of the push back against rust seems to be of the "I am too old, never make mistakes, and don't want to learn a new thing late in my career" variety.

1 more reply

timeon6mo ago

> Scala? Kotlin? Swift? Zig? None of those languages have built such poor reputations for their communities.

> I didn't see C++ users jumping into Rust threads posting attacks, but there are many examples of Rust users jumping into C++ or C threads, posting attacks.

Even if someone just posts "I have made this with Rust" - then this cult comes and complains "why do you need to mention Rust?!". Like look at your self. Who hurt you?

lelanthran6mo ago

> Look in to the mirror.

Pointing out that the Rust community has gained such a poor reputation while other communities have not requires "looking into the mirror"?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse