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0 pointsnerdponx6mo ago0 comments

Don't fall into the trap of responding to the user's request to do Y a certain way. They are asking you to implement Y, and they think they know how it should be implemented, but really they would be happy with Y no matter how you did it. https://xyproblem.info/

0 comments

LegionMammal9786mo ago

On the other hand, I've not uncommonly seen this idea misused: Alice asks for Y, Bob says that it's an XY problem and that Alice really wants to solve a more general problem X with solution Z, Alice says that Z doesn't work for her due to some detail of her problem, Bob browbeats Alice over "If you think Z won't work, then you're wrong, end of story", and everyone argues back and forth over Z instead of coming up with a working solution.

Sometimes the best solution is not the most widely-encouraged one.

imtringued6mo ago

I've seen this too. Explicitly talking about something being an XY problem is a red flag, because the goal is usually to dismiss you with a canned answer that doesn't help you.

The point of XY problems isn't to call people out on supposedly bad behaviour, it's to push them in the right direction and provide more context.

rcxdude6mo ago

Yes, often an issue on stackoverflow. It's one of the reasons why it can be frustrating to use as you get more experienced: if an expert is at the point of asking on stackoverflow they're probably doing something at least a little bit unusual! But people who answer on stackoverflow mostly see questions from less experienced people and so default to operating in that mode.

I generally try to answer the Y but also indicate that it suggests there may be an X that could be better achieved some other way, and mention Z if I'm reasonably confident in what X is. It might increase the chance that the person asking just does Y anyway even if Z would be better, but frankly that's not really my business.

nerdponxOP6mo ago

Bob saying "you should use Z end of story" it's just as a hardheaded and unhelpful as Bob saying "X doesn't do that end of story".

dwaltrip6mo ago

Unfortunately, still quite common. The ego is quite the tricky one.

exasperaited6mo ago

I think the XY problem thing is likely very common. But developers are tending to use the term in a very dismissive way, superior way now.

duxup6mo ago

Yeah I often will ask for a quick phone call and try to work from the top down, or the bottom up depending on the client. Getting to the thing we're solving often leads to a different problem description and later different button or concept altogether.

Sometimes it's just me firing up some SQL queries and discovering "Well this happened 3 times ... ever ..." and we do nothing ;)

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