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0 pointsdoctorhandshake5mo ago0 comments

This. I had 12 contractors come out for an estimate. I insisted to each that I would only consider estimates accompanied by a Manual J (aka show your work). I got 4 estimates with a manual J, and one of them the vendor said ‘despite that the math says you need a 4 ton outdoor unit, I’m giving you two,’ and refused to budge on that.

I went with a vendor who did the math and sized accordingly and my system works great - great comfort year round and very low energy usage.

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JeremyPOsborne5mo ago

If we’re trying to bring down cost the this is the issue with so many contractors coming out. The cost of sales is about 10-15% of the installation in the US. So thats $2-3k in California per heat pump

Try to get an install for $600 like in Japan when you have to pay $2k to find the customer.

Let’s have a lower cost sales process. Review 12 companies online, pick top 3, ask them to come out.

doctorhandshakeOP5mo ago

Yeah in case it wasn’t clear - I wasn’t asking a million vendors to price the job, I was asking them to do a manual J so they could price the job. It took 12 to get 4 to do the manual J. The other 8 came on-site and then refused to do the calcs even though I told them before coming out that it was a prerequisite for me to consider their quote.

I got a variety of explanations for why they weren’t going to do it, most of them along the lines of ‘I’ve been doing this forever - I know what I’m doing,’ but a few disappointingly ‘I don’t know what a manual J is.’ Again, this was AFTER my telling them over the phone that I wouldn’t consider a quote that wasn’t based on the calcs.

JeremyPOsborne5mo ago

Yep, the cost is in the trip is a big factor but sounds like it was their choice to try to sell you. You did the right thing by asking them do the calcs before they came out. Millions of questions are time consuming and costly but better than someone rushing into and pausing mid project with in-decision.

We (I'm cofounder of Electric Air, HVAC contract) have had people pause on day one of install, and that ends up costing the company $10-20K due to delays. Mostly because there isn't something for the team to do for that day or two while we scramble to line up the next customer.

Marsymars5mo ago

I've had a similarly frustrating experience trying to get contractors to redo my gutters.

They seem fine with the gutter part, but once I explain my rain collection system and my requirements around specific downspout sizing and simultaneous overflow, they just seem to have no interest in doing the bit of work required to make it all fit together.

maxerickson5mo ago

Wild that you put it on the customer to reduce the sales cost.

I can see it being reasonable to explain during the initial contact that you want the standardized estimate, once that happens it's not really on the customer if the contractor goes out to chase the business even if they know they aren't going to do it.

JeremyPOsborne5mo ago

You are right! I was unfair. The customer was clear they wanted ManJ calcs.

It's not the customer's problem to reduce cost. The high cost is the customer's problem through even if they are not to blame. And given I have a first hand experience in the cost stack of HVAC company, I would happy to share how a HVAC contractor thinks.

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JeremyPOsborne5mo ago

Try to get an install for $600 like in Japan when you have to pay $2k to find the customer.

Let’s have a lower cost sales process. Review 12 companies online, pick top 3, ask them to come out.

doctorhandshakeOP5mo ago

JeremyPOsborne5mo ago

Marsymars5mo ago

I've had a similarly frustrating experience trying to get contractors to redo my gutters.

maxerickson5mo ago

Wild that you put it on the customer to reduce the sales cost.

JeremyPOsborne5mo ago

You are right! I was unfair. The customer was clear they wanted ManJ calcs.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse