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0 pointsshevy-java5mo ago0 comments

Is that a religion now?

The pickaxe guys coined it. People repeat it without thinking about it.

If matz were to say "jump from the bridge", people would do it, because matz is nice?

Just to point out: I do think matz is nice and a great language designer. That in itself doesn't mean anything. Why would I proxy my own decisions based on any mindless slogan? That makes no sense. Why do people in the ruby ecosystem keep on repeating those pointless slogans?

0 comments

ubercore5mo ago

I think it's pretty obvious to see the difference between being nice and jumping off a bridge? Curious why this cute phrase bothers you so much.

vidugavia5mo ago

The phrase has been weaponized in the past many times. Some figures in the community are almost as far from "nice" as possible, but you're not allowed to call that out, because "it's not nice".

zahlman5mo ago

> but you're not allowed to call that out, because "it's not nice".

I don't know about the Ruby community, but I've seen this sort of complaint made about many other online spaces (including HN) and my general finding is that it simply isn't true. The problem is that for a proper call-out, both form and content matter, and most people in a mindset to make call-outs don't seem very interested in norms surrounding either of those things. Especially the part where part of good form is accepting that not all kind, well-meaning people have the same moral values and calculus.

1 more reply

kamranjon5mo ago

Is being nice equivalent to jumping off a bridge? I think it's relatively simple to comprehend and also harmless. The guy who built this thing is nice, let's try to continue that tradition so that our community doesn't turn to shit.

squeaky-clean5mo ago

> Why would I proxy my own decisions based on any mindless slogan?

Exactly, why would you? But ignoring a hypothetical communal bridge jumping situation, do you have a problem with Matz having stewardship over RubyGems? Use your own thinking. If you're okay with it, then... is it because Matz is nice?

dudeinjapan5mo ago

Matz wouldn’t say jump from a bridge because he is nice.

matheusmoreira5mo ago

It's a reminder to us all.

I don't think I've ever seen Matz be rude to anyone on the Ruby bug tracker. I've actually witnessed him deal with controversial topics firmly yet gracefully, making decisions that avoid turmoil in the community and that leave no room for escalation into flamewars. Other projects weren't so lucky.

I wrote some Ruby in my teenage years and his conduct certainly made an impression on me. I try to remember this guy whenever I get too angry about stuff. We should all try to be more like him.

That's what the phrase is saying, by the way. It's an encouragement to follow in his footsteps.

sam0x175mo ago

It affirms that being nice is a role model / thing we want to do in the Ruby community

delichon5mo ago

I know what you mean about mindless aspirational slogans. "No child left behind" is logically the same as "no child gets ahead". But trying to convince the Ruby community to be nice, by the example of their founder, isn't in that category. And if Matz told me to jump off of a bridge, he has enough stored up credibility that I'd at least consider it.

cortesoft5mo ago

Not necessarily. Your logic only holds if you assume the "behind" refers to other children.

The statement is ambiguous. I interpret it as "no child left behind THE STANDARD FOR THEIR AGE". In that interpretation, other kids being ahead of that standard doesn't mean the other kids have to be behind the standard. Every kid could be not "left behind" the standard even if some are ahead of the standard.

Of course, NCLB has a lot of other issues, but I think the name isn't the issue.

gmac5mo ago

> "No child left behind" is logically the same as "no child gets ahead"

If by both statements you mean "all children must be in exactly the same position", yes ... but that's a wilfully obtuse interpretation.

delichon5mo ago

It seems to be to be literal rather than obtuse to observe that it is necessary for some children to fall behind in order for others to get ahead. The slogan on its face is a wish for equality of outcome. But it's catchier than ”no child failing to meet minimum standards”.

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mcphage5mo ago

> If matz were to say "jump from the bridge", people would do it, because matz is nice?

As always, there's a relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1170/

...but seriously, what on earth do you think you're saying here?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

ubercore5mo ago

I think it's pretty obvious to see the difference between being nice and jumping off a bridge? Curious why this cute phrase bothers you so much.

vidugavia5mo ago

The phrase has been weaponized in the past many times. Some figures in the community are almost as far from "nice" as possible, but you're not allowed to call that out, because "it's not nice".

zahlman5mo ago

> but you're not allowed to call that out, because "it's not nice".

1 more reply

kamranjon5mo ago

squeaky-clean5mo ago

> Why would I proxy my own decisions based on any mindless slogan?

dudeinjapan5mo ago

Matz wouldn’t say jump from a bridge because he is nice.

matheusmoreira5mo ago

It's a reminder to us all.

I wrote some Ruby in my teenage years and his conduct certainly made an impression on me. I try to remember this guy whenever I get too angry about stuff. We should all try to be more like him.

That's what the phrase is saying, by the way. It's an encouragement to follow in his footsteps.

sam0x175mo ago

It affirms that being nice is a role model / thing we want to do in the Ruby community

delichon5mo ago

cortesoft5mo ago

Not necessarily. Your logic only holds if you assume the "behind" refers to other children.

Of course, NCLB has a lot of other issues, but I think the name isn't the issue.

gmac5mo ago

> "No child left behind" is logically the same as "no child gets ahead"

If by both statements you mean "all children must be in exactly the same position", yes ... but that's a wilfully obtuse interpretation.

delichon5mo ago

2 more replies

mcphage5mo ago

> If matz were to say "jump from the bridge", people would do it, because matz is nice?

As always, there's a relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1170/

...but seriously, what on earth do you think you're saying here?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse