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0 pointsjandrewrogers7mo ago0 comments

> 69% of the US population are living paycheck to paycheck

Per the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, that is not out of any kind of financial necessity. It is a lifestyle choice.

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Most [bottom 60% of U.S. households] Americans don't earn enough to afford basic costs of living, analysis finds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44119317 - May 2025

Report: https://lisep.org/mql | https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/63ba0d84fe573c7513595d6e/...

> One commonly used (though also criticized) benchmark for housing affordability is that no more than 30% of household income should go toward housing costs. Households that spend more than that are considered “cost burdened” by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. By that standard, 31.3% of American households were cost burdened in 2023, including 27.1% of households with a mortgage and 49.7% of households that rent, according to 1-year estimates from the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey (ACS). (Many more people own than rent: In the second quarter of 2024, 65.6% of occupied housing units were owned while 34.4% were rented, according to the most recent estimates from the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey/Housing Vacancy Survey.)

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/10/25/a-look-at...

jandrewrogersOP7mo ago

The bottom line is that BLS statistics, backed up by Federal Reserve studies, show that the median American household has >$1,000 per month in excess income after all ordinary expenses without regard for the necessity of the expenses in the “ordinary” category. In Federal Reserve studies that probed this more deeply, the truly “paycheck to paycheck” population in the sense that most people understand it was 10-15% of the population. That is still a substantial number of households but far below the misleading 69% figure thrown about.

Americans are flush with income at the median and spend it on unnecessary luxury goods, as is their right. There really isn’t a way to argue around this fact.

The households that are paycheck to paycheck outside their own choice is much, much smaller. Including well-off households in the same category does a disservice to poorer households.

BizarroLand7mo ago

I don't believe people with the option of not living paycheck to paycheck would choose to do so given the opportunity.

That being said, I don't think the term, "lifestyle choice" effectively communicates the reasoning behind this lifestyle standard.

fragmede7mo ago

I think there's a lack of financial education in a lot of cases. There are two axis, dumb with money vs smart with money, and rich and poor. These form four quadrants. There are people in each of those quadrants. It's the poor and dumb with money quadrant that's most painful to see. CalebHammer on YouTube helps people to see how their choices result in them drowning in debt.

gruez7mo ago

Which specific statistic are you referring to?

jandrewrogersOP7mo ago

The BLS maintains a model of “ordinary expenses”, which includes every category of expenditure that most American households spend money on. It isn’t based on necessity i.e. transportation is an “ordinary” expense and so buying an expensive BMW is considered “ordinary” under this model. The category of ordinary expenses is expansive.

The median US household has >$1,000 of income left over every month after all ordinary expenses per BLS. This has been the case for a long time. You can’t be living paycheck to paycheck in the sense of “having no money” if you can spend on luxury items in “necessary” categories and still have considerably money left over at the end of the month in the median case. That is the American reality.

Americans are astonishingly wealthy and they don’t even realize it.

gruez7mo ago

I couldn't find any publications when searching for "bls ordinary expenses" and google's AI says you probably meant "Consumer Expenditure Surveys". However after looking at some of the data, I'm not sure it's as rosy as you make it out to be. For instance if you look at consumer expenditures by income[1], you see that the average across all consumer units is $87.9k of post-tax income against $77.3k of "average annual expenditures". That sounds okay until you look at some of the lower income groups. The $50k-69k group has $56.5k of post-tax income against $59.5k of expenses, which implies they're getting into debt to finance their lifestyle. That's true for every income group under $69k.

[1] https://www.bls.gov/cex/tables/calendar-year/mean-item-share...

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toomuchtodo7mo ago

Most [bottom 60% of U.S. households] Americans don't earn enough to afford basic costs of living, analysis finds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44119317 - May 2025

Report: https://lisep.org/mql | https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/63ba0d84fe573c7513595d6e/...

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/10/25/a-look-at...

jandrewrogersOP7mo ago

Americans are flush with income at the median and spend it on unnecessary luxury goods, as is their right. There really isn’t a way to argue around this fact.

The households that are paycheck to paycheck outside their own choice is much, much smaller. Including well-off households in the same category does a disservice to poorer households.

BizarroLand7mo ago

I don't believe people with the option of not living paycheck to paycheck would choose to do so given the opportunity.

That being said, I don't think the term, "lifestyle choice" effectively communicates the reasoning behind this lifestyle standard.

fragmede7mo ago

gruez7mo ago

Which specific statistic are you referring to?

jandrewrogersOP7mo ago

Americans are astonishingly wealthy and they don’t even realize it.

gruez7mo ago

[1] https://www.bls.gov/cex/tables/calendar-year/mean-item-share...

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