Niri – A scrollable-tiling Wayland compositor (opens in new tab)

Niri recently improved it's integration with xwayland-satellite, so it's easier to run programs that don't support wayland now: https://github.com/YaLTeR/niri/wiki/Xwayland

For me, the appeal of i3/sway's model is that by having a desktop per topic (eg, one for browser, one for code, one for slack, etc) I can instantly jump to the topic I need with a single key press. The desktops I assign never change, so it's always Super+1 for my browser and Super+4 for Slack. It's all muscle memory, and I could do it in my sleep. When I jump to that desktop, everything is open and tiled. This was a revelation to me coming from MacOS, where I was constantly hunting for windows with Cmd+Tab or squinting at thumbnails in Mission Control. So I'm surprised to hear that you prefer Niri's scroll model, which to me sounds like hunting for windows all over again.

Yes same here but with i3, I ran it for over 10 years but niri was just an instant 'aha' moment for me.

I will say, recent builds have a 'mini map' sort of zoom-out feature that I quite like - my one critique of niri was that I would sometimes get 'lost'.

The only thing I feel like is missing from niri is a scratch layer. There are some apps that just don’t need to be tiled and it’s nice to have access to them immediately no matter “where” you are. Perfect example is matrix client. If the wife texts me I want to become able to pop that sucker up immediately and reply, not find the “matrix client workspace”. Plus it’s tiny and doesn’t need to be tiled. Same with media players.

Paperwm on gnome has this.

I've been using i3 for 7 years now, and my immediate response to the scrolling thing was "why?" and after reading your comment, I'm still trying to understand. As one would expect for any tiling wm, the screenshots only show how pretty it can be, and don't really illustrate how it helps with productivity.

Would you mind going into more detail on what actually happens when you move horizontally? What happens when you have a fullscreen editor, then slide over to a half-screen browser? Do you only see half the editor, or does the editor get squished?

One thing I desperately want is a tiling wm that is also a browser. Like if surf ran a practical engine and was more deeply integrated into dmenu.

NixOS will get you there (or anywhere, to any version, of any thing, and/or back again) just by pinning any conceivable package (and it has more than any other Linux distro) to a particular nixpkgs hash.

I thought of this because it sounds like one of the reasons you're not upgrading it is fearing the risk of it fucking everything up and it being a pain to roll back (your "it ain't broke, so why fix it?" is a hallmark of that mentality). Well...

I will never use another Linux distro for this specific reason. NixOS is the complete freedom to dip in, dip out, roll back on problems, try new things out, etc. The freedom to experiment, try it, back out if there's any issue... but with seatbelts, thanks to the declarative nature of everything (as well as being able to pick previous "instances" on boot).

Afraid of Nix (the language)? LLM's make that trivial these days. For example, I just did something like this today: "Instead of using the one in nixpkgs, whose build has issues on my hardware, set up a derivation that uses its git repo and compiles that instead." A minute later, boom. Declarative working glory, forever.

I've been running Xmonad for about 16 years and, having read the description and watched the video think I will keep on doing so. It looks to me like the cognitive load of the horizontally scrolling strip is higher than that of the paged approach used by e.g. Xmonad just like it is a lot harder to locate a specific section in a vertically scrolling unpaged ream of text than in a paged book. Especially on pages with many windows - 10 terminals on page 1 is more or less standard, 2 large ones stacked in the middle flanked by 4 smaller ones on each side - I keep track of which terminal goes where based on (among others) location. This works because all 10 of them are visible at the same time, it would not work if the display only shows one or two of them at a time. Am I missing something or is this WM/compositor more suitable to smaller displays which can not show all that many windows at the same time?

Of course I also use X11 so this thing would not work for me anyway.

Zoom works, it's just janky.

I wouldn't be surprised if the COSMIC folks add it after the 1.0 release. There's been a lot of feature requests for it. In the mean time, a System76 employee created this unofficial extension to let you use other compositors within COSMIC, including Niri.

https://github.com/Drakulix/cosmic-ext-extra-sessions

I also switched from PaperWM to niri, and I was reluctant to do it, because I really liked not having to configure several different little apps to get a working desktop environment. GNOME comes out of the box with an app launcher, a basic configuration editor, a screen locker, widgets for controlling audio and network, etc. But ultimately, PaperWM was too quirky. For example, sometimes PaperWM and an app would disagree about what size the app's window should be, and the window would resize itself repeatedly. The vertical sizing never worked very well either.

Cosmic with tiling would be so incredible. I love cosmic and that's the one thing I'm missing

Thanks, I wanted to know the difference with COSMIC

How much does random people reviewing other people's PRs help in practice?

As a maintainer I'd still want to review PRs myself before merging, no matter how many random people did it before me.

As a contributor, I'd hate for a random with shallow understanding of the problem/project to come in and tell me I had to change stuff or say my PR's no good, in the chance that the maintainer is easily influenced by strong internet opinions.

I second this, if you are daily niri user, show your appreciation, I already did! Here's my personal setup, hope it inspires someone to try it https://github.com/knoopx/nix

Link to support: https://github.com/sponsors/YaLTeR

As a hyprland user, why should I switch to Niri? Is the appeal based on the "inifinite windows" feature

If there is one thing about macOS that really sucks, it is the window management. I have been using it for three months now and still don't understand how to use it.

It is not that I am inexperienced (Windows 95/98/2k/XP/Vista/7/8/10/11, Linux with all kinds of Desktops over the years (KDE 2/3/4/5/6, Gnome 2/3, Sway, Unity, XFCE, Enlightenment, blackbox, ...)), or that I didn't try (searched, watched several YouTube tutorials). I also tried different options, such as disabling the entire "Displays have separate spaces" feature (it fixes some cases, but others worsen).

My verdict is simple: They would be better off just adopting the dumb Microsoft Windows 95 approach to window management.

And it isn't that I don't like the system overall. I have never had a laptop with such superb performance, and at the same time, it stays cool as ice and silent. I love the animated video backgrounds on the lock screen with the slowdown on login, and having Zsh as the default is also fun. But the window management...

I've been working on porting komorebi to macOS[1] over the past month and the scrolling layout[2] works pretty well

It (the scrolling layout) is not exactly the same as Niri because the implementation is based on my personal preferences, but it does what it's supposed to on both platforms

[1]: https://youtu.be/u3eJcsa_MJk?si=jSbDsAdLWQu0k1lZ

[2]: https://youtu.be/b1yECfF7Qyg?si=VXMbQo0RqtdzuDjG

> I know I can't have it on macos. I also can't switch to Linux since macos is mandated by my employer.

I’ve had two employers with dumb rules like this and I just worked on a Linux VM running fullscreen on all monitors. It was technically macOS, so IT didn’t have any issues, and it still ran all the security stuff that my employer wanted. At one job, my manager even provisioned a VMWare license for this.

You might try Hammerspoon[0] with PaperWM.spoon[1] on macOS. This is what I use, and while it has quirks, it works better than not having it.

[0] https://www.hammerspoon.org/ [1] https://github.com/mogenson/PaperWM.spoon

Aerospace[0] is by far the best window manager I've come across for Mac.

[0]: https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace

I love the full-fullscreen mode for things like VSCode and FreeCAD on my 13" MBP. Never have a real issue with alt-tab though I must say I do end up paying attention to it more when I am switching between three windows and not in a cyle.

I have tried to get this in KDE Plasma 6 (with a global menu bar) and you just can't quite get there, so you have to settle for maximised but not full-screen apps, which is annoying.

I understand the difference and the architectural history that is that "full-screen" on X/Wayland is essentially a kiosk/don't-interrupt-my-game mode, whereas on the Mac it is chromeless windows on a virtual desktop that you can't get stuck in if you forget the restore keystroke.

But it frustrates me I can't get that.

I use Yabai on Mac for a WM - it works great with my big screen, but I haven't figured out a good workflow for when I need to use just the laptop, then it becomes a bunch of spaces with one or two windows in each.

You are not alone.

Try flashspace. It's a perfect solution when running apps full screen. You just bind your workspaces to keys and they switch instantly. Without any animations.

I'm pretty much the same fwiw I currently use stage manager and double click the top bar of the window to maximize (that's different than the green button)

I hate that I have to hold option everytime I maximise a window. All I want is to change the default to stretch windows and not use the fullscreen mode at all because of the other weirdness it brings.

Hmm... what do you mean "predictable"?

For me cmd+tab / cmd+` works brilianty - switching to last used app/window-of-the-app

Yes, this feature had been in the works for quite a bit since it required non-trivial changes to do it "the right way". Very excited to see these changes merged finally!

Nvidia + Arch + Gnome3 + Wayland user here. I've tried Wayland on/off for the last couple of years, and made the switch I think late last year sometimes once I stopped seeing very obvious bugs/issues. Just about everything works fine nowadays in my experience.

Mostly made the switch because Wayland seems to run a lot smoother and efficient, especially when it came to Firefox for some reason.

Be careful. There are still showstoppers in wayland implementations, if you do anything that isn't common for a Linux user. Example: I am still unable to change the orientation of my drawing tablet.

There are many like this. It mostly works, but it isn't as flawless as just using X11 (unless we are talking about displays and stuff).

Nvidia works since driver 570.

(Edit: grammar and Nvidia note)

On Gnome + NVIDIA (RTX 2080) + Wayland + 3 Monitors [1DP 4K, 2HDMI (2K, FHD)]

Every time I try it, I am really impressed with the smoothness! But every time, two issues come up, which most likely due to NVIDIA, which are complete showstopper.

1. After inactivity period, monitors turns off. When I resume, one monitor won't come back up. I have to deactivate it on control panel, and cancel to get it back. Doing it many times a day, is extremely annoying. This does not happen on two monitors.

2. Monitors won't turn off ... yeah, after inactivity period the monitor's blanks, but, briefly turns off, and then turns back on. And then never turns off. This mostly happens after playing games.

I think both of the issues are due to NVIDIA.

Otherwise, Wayland has become really solid.

Using i3 now, it's not much, it's boring, and that's a good thing.

I think "tried it on _what_?" is the question -- which distribution, etc.? I've been using Wayland on Fedora for years and don't have any complaints. My primary laptop/desktop has an Intel graphics chipset, but I've tested it on laptops w/NVIDIA and not had problems.

In the same boat with you. Not quite the same configuration (some version change issues, lost it once in an 'rm' accident that followed a symlink to / [I learned that day...] and had to start from scratch, rewrote for fun once), but my sole desktop from '09 to '23 when I switched to Niri. My reasoning here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45462034

This was on my Bonobo WS (PopOS) w/ 2x NVidia GTX 1080s, multiple screens (2 1080p, 1 4k at 2x scaling), etc. No issues other than app support.

Highly recommend trying it. Very low barrier to entry.

KDE, Gnome and others obviously do provide stacking windows, but you do get the impression that writing a stacking window manager/compositor is just extremely hard to do with Wayland. Someone is maintaining a list of compositors[1] and there do seem to be a number of stacking ones, they just don't really get much attention.

1) https://www.gilesorr.com/wm/table.html

I just setup Asus Rog G14 with nvidia 3060, I was skeptical against Wayland but basically got it working straight away with only setting drm.modeset (thanks chatgpt?).

So two external monitors working, except if they are daisy chained I am logged out when (dis)connecting them. So I use one hdmi and one dp over usb-c and it works.

So, not 100% but works better than X for me. Still too recent to have seen all the edge cases though.

This is a scrolling WM (not tiling). I've been using it as my daily driver for over a year now, and it's awesome. I never liked tiling WMs because I do a lot of web work, and I often want a large code editor and a large browser window and a few terminals open. I don't like having stuff scrunched into a little rectangle, but I do like having all of that related stuff grouped in a single workspace. This works perfectly with Niri. I can keep my editor in the center, a peek of my browser to the right and a peek of my terminal to the left, and easily flip between them, resize, stack, etc.

I know it doesn't sound all that interesting, but once I used it for a while, I just couldn't go back.

See my comment above (moved from i3wm) but my spec is

RTX 3090, Pop OS 24.04 (beta), 4K 43" Monitor,

Nvidia cards worked out the box with no problems

I have a 49” monitor and tried Niri for a while. I had some issues regarding Wayland, I believe because of Nvidia and stopped using it. I could probably solve them, but I have been using X since years and I don’t feel switching right now.

Anyway, for that short amount of time I liked most of it on my ultrawide monitor. Except when you open just one application, it stays on the left-most part naturally and it honestly sucks to look at. I have no idea if I could modify the settings to launch apps with an offset and eventually occupy the complete screen estate. I‘m planning to build a new AMD machine and will try Wayland compositors again for a longer period of time. Niri is my first candidate.

Re: app cycling, you might also be interested in https://github.com/isaksamsten/niriswitcher.

Wouldn't you have the same problem with changing workspaces? Sounds like you can't keep track of anything not currently present on the screen, which before the overview was a lot harder to deal with. One thing that could help is to create a "temporary terminal" keybinding to launch in floating mode so you'll never forget to close it. Or create a focus-or-launch bind that switches to an existing terminal (tools like Nirius can help minimize scripting). The other thing that may help is adjusting your struts so you can see that windows exist to the left or the right. More of general workflow tip than one related to just terminals.

I don't use niri but I worked around this problem (feature?) by creating a bash script that by default checks if a terminal is already open and if so, brings it into focus. Then I attach it to my default shortcut to open terminal and then create one more shortcut that opens a new terminal every time. So now, depending on which shortcut is pressed, I can either keep reusing the existing terminal or open a new one. I'm sure we can have a script that can do more fancy logic like allowing new terminals upto a given number and after that just bring the latest one into focus. Plenty of possibilities.

I guess you could do this:

    echo "TMOUT=$(units -t '7 days' seconds)" >> .bashrc

If a shell has been sitting at the prompt for 7 days with no input, it's probably OK for it to close. I'm sure it'll be wrong sometimes, but it seems less bad than pkill en masse.

that is actually dream come true... let's keep everything open always :)

Better that they're there so they can be disabled, rather than not there any no one gets any choice?

My pet-peeve is slow animations, as animations can help my eyes/attention to navigate to/from areas of the screen, but when they're too slow, it's just so damn frustrating that I prefer them off. But smooth, fast (nearly invisible) and clean animations seems to help me navigate better/focus faster than just being eye-candy.

I used to feel the same way, but I found that I like the animations in Niri. It helps me to keep a mental model of where everything is located in the infinite strip.

I did change the settings to speed them up significantly, which I think is a good middle ground.

I usually turn off animations in most applications and WMs, but they seem to functionally benefit this window management style to help the user orient and recognize where things are relative to each other.

Before Niri I used PaperWM on Gnome with animations disabled and I found that it actually substantially reduces the usability of this sort of workflow for me. I'm not sure how to phrase it, but scrolling WMs feel a little more "physically grounded" and without the animations it was somewhat easy to become briefly disoriented whenever scrolling/opening/resizing/rearranging windows, at least once you start having 4+ workspaces and several screen widths worth of windows on each workspace.

Turning on the animations quickly makes it all snap into place and I never have the brief moment of "feeling lost" after an operation, so it sees inherently important to this WM style. The animations are very fast out of the box and do not feel superfluous.

I think they can be a helpful hint about how things are positioned relative to each other.

The funny thing about Niri is the choice in animations. When you resize a window, it fades out and then fades back in… it would look much smoother to simply resize the window as you drag. The fading effect almost looks like a glitch.

I really like these animations. I can understand your opinion but I moved to something like cachyos hyprland and its dotfiles really interest me and to me seems like something that __just works__ for me and it was very easy to migrate too and I just needed to add some software and just change some keybinds and I didn't have to modify any hyprland animations on cachy by default as I liked it.

Maybe there is a point to have them not be a default but that might be a hassle for people like me.

There is a point to be made that maybe cachy and others could opinionate it themselves but the stock shouldn't have animations but if you know that they can be deactivated easily, its definitely a mixed bag of sorts.

Like see neovim, people want to use that software with some saner defaults so they use things like lunarvim / nvchad etc. but even when I was on omarchy (which I stopped after reading https://jakelazaroff.com/words/dhh-is-way-worse-than-i-thoug...) neovim with these mods never really worked with LSP and so many other nice to have features and other things with me (maybe skill issue from my side but there was always one or two errors in that neovim and I just prefer micro nowadays, it just works)

> They are just way too distracting, I don't understand why people like them.

Simply not all people get so easily distracted... It may be signs of mild ADHD.

My understanding is that Wayland compositors have fewer responsibilities than either an X11 window manager or X11 compositor despite doing the job for both.

Maybe. But X11 was an unmaintainable mess that was mostly abandoned by its own devs so we get what we get.

Yes, please see this page: https://github.com/YaLTeR/niri/wiki/Configuration:-Window-Ru...

PaperWM let's you define these types of per window rules in it's settings.

I have one laptop where I use Niri along with COSMIC panel and COSMIC term. Niri is amazing.

Package situation on anything that isn't Arch (and I think Fedora) is pretty rough. I installed it from source. It helps that it is a rust application and was up and running in no time

Been using sway for many years before moving to niri last year.

Outside of the fundamental window management differences, I find that a lot of stuff with niri is easier to make work, or just happens to work out of the box. Screen sharing with sway was always a problem for me[1], whereas for niri it works great (incl. sharing individual windows only[2].) I also found that niri is much better at letting hardware go to sleep (which saves 10W on my GPU.)

[1]: https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/7898 etc.

[2]: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wlroots/wlroots/-/issues/3864

If I'm not mistaken, you can have the same workflow with niri. You don't need to use "scrollable" feature of Niri, you can attach screens to workspaces.

I was a former Hyprland user but after I switch to Niri I didn't look back because I think it's kind of having best of two worlds.

In my workflow, I have browser on workspace 1, code editor on 2, CCTV Viewer on 3 (we have a baby and babysitter so I occasionally check them).

In the other monitor, I have slack, terminals etc.

So when I need to switch between browser <-> code (or terminal) I can do quickly. Scrollable comes in handy when you need to check something quickly; for example you are trying to solve something and you need to run some commands in terminal. In that case I just open a new terminal next to browser, do my job and get rid of it.

Also the Super+Tab view is awesome, you can easily see which window is where. Niri also some IPC features so you can find window id and make Niri focus to it. This comes handy if you use Vicinae (Raycast like launcher for Linux). I can switch windows with just using that.

One final note, I highly recommend DankMaterialShell - https://github.com/AvengeMedia/DankMaterialShell/ along with Niri.

> I use Omarchy, btw.

I've been thinking about this comment all day trying to decide if this was an unironic "I use Arch btw" or an intentional homage, but it made me laugh a lot

I'm also on Omarchy. I use it somewhat like a scrollable compositor, in that I open a max of 2 windows, then move on to the next desktop, then just scroll through them all. But have the option for floating windows or a vertical split when needed (to run a command or something). Plus Hyprland is becoming more cohesive by the day.

I feel the I use Arch btw is fair because with pure Arch you actually have to configure things, you know.

But Omarchy is a fully pre-configured distro, there's no flex in that.

I avoid anything to do with DHH for his views expressed on his blog. I'm sure Omarchy is nice and all, but there are other choices without the ethical baggage.

I don't use vicinae, but I just tried it out on niri and it seems to work! I might check it out, it looks interesting.

I'm using vicinae on Niri, no issues at all

Those are provided by desktop shells rather than niri. For example Noctalia [0], or DankMaterialShell [1] which is build for niri specifically.

[0] https://github.com/noctalia-dev/noctalia-shell [1] https://github.com/AvengeMedia/DankMaterialShell

Niri supports [floating windows](https://github.com/YaLTeR/niri/wiki/Floating-Windows). I think is the same as stacking, right?

There's this, based on the PaperWM GNOME extension. https://github.com/mogenson/PaperWM.spoon

You can run niri from within other DEs, but I'm unsure whether it works well for your use-case. From the docs[0]:

"You can also run niri inside an existing desktop session. Then it will open as a window, where you can give it a try. Note that this windowed mode is mainly meant for development, so it is a bit buggy (in particular, there are issues with hotkeys)."

IIRC in this case the Mod key is by default Alt instead of Super.

[0] https://yalter.github.io/niri/Getting-Started.html

I'm not sure, but I doubt it. You could try PaperWM [0] inside Gnome to get a feel for the scrolling WM workflow, and see if it's worth switching to niri proper for you.

[0] https://github.com/paperwm/PaperWM

What do you mean by shaders?

I'm not sure what the process is like for Ubuntu, but if you just want something Debian-based then PikaOS has prebuilt niri ISOs.

Interested as well. I'm unfamiliar with what it takes, just an apt install ?

I'm using Regolith, which is installed in two commands.

I did it, lotta work. Easier on nix and arch I guess.

Yes

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. The infinite strip extends to the right, so you scroll left-right. Workspaces are up-down. If that's what you meant?