People spend hundreds of dollars and many hours sharpening kitchen knives, of course there's a viable market for sharper kitchen knives. And for e-waste, you are never going to make meaningful progress by telling consumers to feel bad for buying fun things. The problem is so much bigger than that, the energy is better spent in a different place.
This is a cool and novel tool, at least as far as its genuine utility can be verified. It doesn't seem harmful to let people get excited about it.
>People spend hundreds of dollars and many hours sharpening kitchen knives...
Keeping knives sharp is just obscure enough of a skill to elude most home cooks. Videos that tell you to judge the angle for sharpening a knife unaided don't help.
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You can sharpen (really, burnish) steel knives on a stainless steel sink edge! Stainless steel kitchen sinks are very common in USA.
Gently press the knife blade almost flat against the sink edge and pull the knife handle toward you while moving it to the right (or to the left if you're left-handed). Hold the knife at the angle desired for the blade edge (endless discussions of angle are possible). Of course don't cut yourself.
The motion is similar to that when using a sharpening steel.
Do several times on both sides. Wash and wipe the blade clean. Voila!
A co-worker taught me this trick after I asked how she kept her knife so sharp. I haven't bought or used a knife sharpener since.
I'm not saying it's not a good idea to sharpen knives, but a lot of people make it sound like you're a dangerous monster if you don't. And that just doesn't seem to be the case.
She never said anything, I didn't know it. Why?
Because she is just "used" to it and to her these knives were just fine. So she never thought about sharpening knives in the first place.
I will take those knives to a pro and he will sharpen them for me, as in a rental I stay in, I don't have the tools to do that and as I said in another comment - I don't have a pain free process to do that as I don't do it often.
Such knife seems like a disaster waiting to happen, I can't see the benefit honestly.
With a mass market electric sharpener and a reasonable knife I spend maybe 15 minutes/yr on sharpening and the knife + sharpener costs less than half this product
The marketing video seems to try to head people like me off, but it also seems to wildly overstate the level of commitment required to have sharp knives
(I do think the tech is cool tho. I just wouldn’t pay $400 for an 8 inch chef’s knife no matter how good it is)
I am ashamed to admit it, but I have been happily using this 5,99 EUR IKEA knife sharpener for nearly 10 years know:
https://www.ikea.com/de/en/p/aspekt-knife-sharpener-black-57...
I use it 1-2 times a month for 30 seconds on the 2 knives I use in the kitchen. They pass the paper test. Previously, I used the bottom of a coffee mug.
That being said, thinks like [0] do exist and people seem to buy them.
also, no test on power armor, I don't think they have identified their core market.
I think it's a worthwhile message to tell folks that we, collectively, should be mindful about the resources we consume and the waste we produce. For such razor-thin (lol) gains in QoL, I think it's worth reminding people to consider whether it is worth the huge increase in waste. Knives are metal and wood/plastic... awfully efficient tools for the work they get done.
EDIT: And to balance the negativity, I _love_ the Seattle Ultrasonics logo.
If this turns into a significant market, I'm sure the cost will plummet.
* https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-puzzle-of-the-all-...
It's "slashdot talks about the iPod announcement" all over again.
Unfortunately, communities tend to devolve other time into empty cynicism and negativity, and it's hard to stop, since obviously you don't want to ban 100% of cynical or negative comments.
First, on sharpness, it takes me about 15 minutes once a week to sharpen my cleaver, two chef's knives, paring knife and breadknife. I could spend another half an hour or so and get them to razor sharpness, but I don't because I don't need or want that level of sharpness for kitchen work. Therefore, while something that eliminates that 15 minute task could be of value to me (though personally I rather enjoy the process), something that provides a sharper edge is not.
Secondly, even if I were to use razor-sharp knives, there's a limit to the damage they will do to my hands in a typical accident. In particular, even a razor sharp knife will usually stop at the bone. I don't know if this knife will because this advert didn't address safety at all, but given ultrasonic knives are used for cleanly cutting through bones in surgery [1] it's reasonable to suspect it might not. Adding to my chef's knives the ability to smoothly pass all the way through my finger would not be an upgrade in my view [2].
Lastly, to raise questions about a product's safety is not "moralising". If I were to say that you shouldn't use this knife because of safety concerns, that could be viewed as a moral position, but I don't care about that at all. You can use chainsaws and flamethrowers in your kitchen for all I care. When I say I would be unlikely to buy this thing without some information on what it will do to my hand in the event of a kitchen accident, that's just a choice I am free to make as a consumer.
[1] https://www.cheersonic.com/portfolio-items/ultrasonic-bone-c...
[2] As it is, I have what seems to be permanent scarring and some loss of sensation on my left thumb from cutting it to the bone with my breadknife a year ago, and my mind replays the trauma every time I pick that knife up. (No, the knife was not blunt. It was brand new at the time, and I've since maintained it to the same level of sharpness it had then, using a ceramic sharpening rod and a whetstone for the tip. The accident was due to me being distracted and positioning my hand incorrectly. And yes, better technique would have prevented it, but I'm not and never will be a trained chef. Had I used this ultrasonic knife I expect I would have taken the end of my thumb off.)
"People spend hundreds of dollars and many hours sharpening kitchen knives,"
The former, totally agree - i've seen people buy a tormek to do basic knife sharpening (not grinding), which is like swatting a fly with an $800 hammer.
The latter, do you mean overall, or in a sitting or what?
I've certainly seen people on various forums go nuts, and then you have hertzmann staring at knife edges with an SEM, but even if i did it completely by hand with shaptons, it takes like 15 minutes, max, to sharpen 10 knives, through an entire insane grit progression (which i do for plane blades when i need to cleanly slice end grain without going to a super high-angle plane or something. For knives, i was just trying to get a comparison point, i use electric sharpeners in practice).
Or approximately 2 minutes with an electric knife sharpener.
While sure, there is a difference when i put them under my digital inspection microscope, either can slice paper towel cleanly and easily (slicing paper is easy, slicing paper towel ends to be hard because any burr catches really easily)
Are there really even semi-normal people out there spending hours to sharpen knives?
If so, like, why?
(Obviously, again, if they need to be reground because you knicked it really badly, sure that takes a bit, but beyond that)
None of these steels are tough enough to require all that many strokes (it's pretty easy to test it with a marker and see when you remove the marking), and if you are using super custom steels (RIP Crucible :(), carbide, or ceramics, you need CBN or diamond anyway, but the same is still true - given the correct abrasive material, sharpening knives is just not that slow.
I actually travel with an electric knife sharpener if we are going to be staying in an airbnb somewhere for >1 week and are cooking most nights. It's the most consistent thing about airbnb - no matter what level of luxury, etc, they always have many knives, and all of them are dangerously dull. It still doesn't take more than a few minutes to sharpen them all.
I also dont like the blades ruined through automatic sharpeners - the knifes are made of good quality steel, were made to order in Jp, and have sentimental value. I also sharpen the cheap knifes this way, tho - I like manual work.
I got a single decent knife: https://wusthof.com/products/wusthof-classic-8-cooks-knife-1...
But I’m worried about ruining it, and the “care instructions” seem to mention using a whetstone.
So far, I mostly sharpen my knives on the back of a plate. So definitely could be doing more :)
I don't have time in my schedule at the moment, which says "sharpen the knifes". So for me - it would be amazing if someone solved this problem in a radical way.
Sporadically I would sharpen the knives and since I don't have it in my "skills" section of the brain, I always have to "figure out" sharpening process.
How would this make my life much better?
To that observation I'd add (h/t my Slack friends) this interesting site Seattle Ultrasonics stood up:
https://seattleultrasonics.com/pages/knife-database
One thing I notice here is that Japanese knives (and my trusty MAC) fare really well on the BESS and CATRA scale, but relatively poorly on the "Food Cutting Rank", which is based on an ad-hoc seeming performance scale of how well their robot fared with a bunch of cutting tests that included stuff like bread and cheese (h/t again Slack friends) --- which nobody uses a chef's knife to cut.
That's a weird scale to plot chef's knives across --- unless the purpose of building that scale was to showcase an electronic knife that does well on tasks people don't normally use chef's knives for, but maybe not as well on chef knife daily driver tasks.
I'll cut bread with my chef's knife (amazon shun knockoff) when I want to make less of a mess. One interesting thing I noticed is that when Scott was cutting bread in the video he was cutting a croissant and no crumbs fell.
It will be interesting to see the knife in the hands of real chefs. Two things I'm curious about are whether the ergonomics of the button are good, and whether the ultrasonic action atomizes foods as they're being cut, changing the experience of cooking in some way.
Not really? I feel like this is for the other people, the folks who don't have the training to use a chefs knife super well. I'd rather see a decent home cook compare it to their knife in general prep.
"The best tools shouldn't only be accessible to the pros" but his knife costs more than every knife in that database.
The weight is listed in their help articles as 330g. I also think that handle is chunkier than a typical high end chef's knife. It may be easier to cut things with it, but I think your hand and arm are going to get tired of using it more quickly than with a regular knife at ~100g less.
And I realize these fare worse than the high end japanese and german knives, but it's hard to get excited about a $400 knife you can't put in the dishwasher when you can get a perfectly credible fibrox knife for about a tenth of that, which doesn't require charging and can tolerate 'careless home cook' levels of abuse.
“This has all the hallmarks of a product that’s going to be disappointing but I’m so optimistic it won’t be.”
I’m seriously hopefuls it works because vibroblades (I mean, “progressive knives” and “high frequency blade”) are awesome and the timelines of Neon Genesis Evangelion and Metal Gear are getting closer. Which may, or may not be a good thing.
My question is: would there still be an improvement if they used a slicing action?
As an example are tons of people pushing Feather or Astra or similar ultra sharp shaving razors. I bought a ton of sample packs the ones I liked the most were Kai, which are considered relatively dull, but have properties which make the overall experience better (I recall reading they’re thicker and vibrate less during cutting).
To me that makes this knife cutting benchmark more attractive than sharpness or retention, but I still have questions about technique used in the benchmarks, and how that affects knife performance (e.g. I would never try to cut bread by just pressing down as this move does).
This is mostly just a remark on the fact that BESS is probably just measuring the factory edge… which only matters until it has dulled the first time?
All of the Japanese brands I recognized were in the top 10 (out of 21) with the MAC being exactly in the middle.
Hi, originally-trained Oriental cook here. Yes, we do use chefs knives to cut cheese. Also cleavers. Also wires.
- a chopping knive, 9-12" depending on one's hand
- a utility knife for slicing, about 6"
- a paring knife, a cheaper ordinary one is fine
(Amusingly, butter is one of the demos in this video.)
Ditto for bread knives.
The knife is amazing and exactly as shown in the video. Rand Fishkin has a nice short on LinkedIn trying out the knife too. I think he shows one his (sharp) kitchen knives slicing through a lemon, then the Ultrasonic. It's astounding.
Disclaimer: I am a (tiny) angel investor in Seattle Ultrasonics.
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7374472...
Disclaimer: I've enjoyed many delicious meals at Rand's table
Even the best tend to struggle with consistency and can only go so thin due to all the friction. An ultrasonic mandoline that can overcome all that would probably fly off the shelves and better match the original industrial intent.
FTFY
Clearly, this product is not intended for the mass market, and may find purchase with people who have tennis elbow and who can afford it, etc. <insert other critiques about practicality and applicability here>. But still, when was the last time someone tried to re-invent something as basic as a knife?
HOZO NeoBlade Wireless Ultrasonic Cutter
It's from a kickstarter.
A year ago? This one is designed for woodworkers.
https://www.bourbonmoth.com/shop/p/the-bourbon-blade-origina...
This one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gqi2cNCKQY
Debunking: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtU3bYyCtA
This video makes me like Scott and Seattle Ultrasonics. I feel I can trust Scott's expertise. His backstory fits what I imagine I would do if I were obsessed with a project like this. This makes me compelled to learn more and to maybe become a customer? Why? Because I want to see Scott succeed and would feel proud to be a part of that. Even if this knife didn't end up performing to my expectations or if I didn't really need a knife like this, I want to see Scott make more things. He has a very well-proven record of delivering and I would bet he could do it again.
Funny, that! Whatever type of marketing this is, it works on me.
It's expensive (but not really, only compared to knives - a $500 GPU isn't expensive). It's probably mostly good in certain niches and using a $10 knife that's sharpened properly is probably 95% as good in almost every application, and using a $10 knife that is only reasonably well sharpened is probably 90% as good. Slicing stuff for hotpot or yakiniku or Korean BBQ is what I thought of when I saw the ad, while for a lot of things it's probably not worth it. But a lot of stuff is like that - good in a niche, OK elsewhere, and there's always a cheaper option that's more flexible and almost as good even in the niche.
I feel like hn is upset by the lack of marketing. This looks like a direct sales ad that you'd get on Facebook, rather than the hype research marketing that mostly targets the b2b types who mostly dwell here? The marketing isn't the kind of marketing they normally get targeted by, so they notice it's marketing?
I notice this on other forums. If marketing isn't slick and well targeted, people get upset and suspicious because it's marketing. But functionally, they're not upset because it's marketing (almost everything is), they're upset because it's not enough marketing, and functionally they want more marketing that targets them better.
A sharpened piece of metal has been reliable for thousands of years and will continue to remain so. For new tech, I am also a fan of the ceramic knives out there for vegetables, as they hold a razors edge much longer than metal (albeit are far more brittle - I use them for veggies only, no meat).
One can buy a decent steel chef's knife, a ceramic one, lose them both, buy them again, buy a sharpening stone and a strop for the price of one of these. On one hand, the sci-fi emergence of the vibroblade or something in the kitchen would be cool. On the other, it could be a $500 vibrating slapchop[1].
O.o
No, it's really expensive. $400 is nearly a week's pay for an hourly worker in much of the US. For many on this site it might be less than a day's labor but that's not the general case.
The lack of trust is probably because knives seem to be a favorite product of shysters. Selling expensive knives that promise the moon and wow the audience with cool knife tricks just reeks of fast talking late-night infomercial salesman trying to get over on grandma. The tech looks cool, but the presentation is off-putting.
"Sure, people claim the kitchen knife has been a solved problem for hundreds of years, but what if there was a kitchen knife that had a battery inside and cost $500?"
And if this version of the knife doesn't connect to the cloud, the next one will.
It all seems quite gimmicky.
Everything has pros and cons. You haven't said a single pro. You haven't added any real cons to what I said, and made up hypothetical ones.
It's a sales pitch so you're saying why you wouldn't buy it. I'm not ordering one either, 500 is a bit steep for me. If he just showed off the technology, I suspect people here would be more enthusiastic about it, even if you wouldn't bother to buy it yourself.
I'm not saying you're wrong (at the price point), but that the framing of whether we're going to buy it is a result of the marketing.
That's just ugly cynicism. And I'm willing to bet a good amount of money the "next one" from this company won't. But it doesn't matter because this one doesn't and we're talking about this one, not some hypothetical that may never arrive.
There's something about this sort of product that feels inherently gimmicky. I can't quite explain why, maybe because it's too good to be true, maybe because it's a kitchen appliance, maybe it has something to do with the vibrations.
For instance, my girlfriend has this eye cream applicator(?) that vibrates... for some reason. Is it a gimmick? I don't really know, but there isn't a research paper in the world that would convince me it isn't.
Anyways, this video had me hooked, and I would 100% try this out if I could. But I would never buy it without trying first.
For me, I get extra upset and suspicious if marketing is well targeted. Add a plus one if it is particularly slick.
Just something off-putting in someone trying to draw on my strings, which I see all too well myself, thank you.
I think the value proposition is in the idea that you don't have to sharpen this knife as often as with a normal knife, and that the performance is consistent.
The non stickiness is also a huge value proposition, because that is an annoying and time consuming aspect of any cutting.
I think we all had very similar thoughts to yours, but just came to the opposite conclusion.
We don't like "buzz" and "hype"... if it's truly a great technology we can buy one a year from now. Not trusting a commercial to be honest isn't undue skepticism.
Well said.
First - ~all food illness causing bacteria is denser than air. about 1000x denser. On its own, it won't float.
Second - almost all cutting motions are still going to throw it around. So you are already doing this when you cut or chop food. You are slicing cell walls, etc, releasing pathogens that exist inside. But it doesn't like aerosolize in the sense of floating around, because it's denser than air[1]. How far it goes depends on the cutting motion, etc.
Third - does ultrasonic make it better or worse - well, again, it doesn't overall float, so it's really a question of does it do anything to make go farther/less far, and does it do anything to destroy or the opposite?
44khz (used here) is a common ultrasonic frequency in cleaning[2] and leak detection.
In fact, it's also used to remove bacterial cells from surfaces at higher intensities (and detect them at lower intensities). It's actually one of the major ways non-heat pasteurization is done.
While it's not 100% at removing individual bacterial cells, even at super high intensity, ultrasonic frequencies are both detrimental to cell growth, and as used here, will cause lots and lots of bacterial death because of everything from cavitation to pressure changes to instantaneous heat to you name it.
Does it fling pathogens any further? Maybe? I'm sure there are some situations in which it will. But they don't seem normal. Like if you are just slicing raw meat or chicken, it's hard to see how it could do that.
Overall, it probably helps more than it hurts. As far as i can tell, it's not even a close question.
[1] It is possible to get the bacteria to float in air anyway due to brownian motion and other mechanisms, but it still seems overblown - the percent of food borne illness caused by inhaling bacteria vs eating underprepared food it is so small they don't even bother to track it. This knife is not going to change that.
[2] If you google it, you will also discover it's emitted by fearful rats. I don't know if the knife also scares rats away.
Why is it a good point?
Do you get disease at a rate we care about from smelling a fart? Or smelling raw chicken? Or cooking chicken and the aerosolize particles off that?
The tool seems to melt going off similar tech - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNwHDWlA7gE
Why does you brain think it's a good point other than you want to be negative? Because nihilism is cooler than thinking?
Dentists do ultrasonic scaling, which a ultrasonic water spray and are not dropping like flies.
What is the good point here, tell us more, love to hear it.
You are going to have about as much aerosolized raw chicken meat water (ARCMW) whether you use an ultrasonic knife or not.
The ARCMW touched by the ultrasonic knife will probably have significantly less alive bacteria than the stuff touched by the regular knife.
It's a cool idea, and I hope it is commercially successful, but not for me.
Those who are interested in knives would be able to get a more impressive knife for $399. And they are usually the type of people that enjoy sharpening a knife until it cuts better than this ultrasonic knife ever will.
This is a product which is targeted at people who don't really know a lot about knives and prep their meals with a dull blade.
That one use would be anything but dull though
Time until vibroswords, vibroaxes, vorpal blades, ect...
Wha? I tapped the little diagonal expandy-arrows in the top corner and it went full screen.
Thin slicing frozen meat for instance, carving pumpkins, cutting bones etc.
I’m a nerd, but Ive found that once I’ve mastered a hobby I eventually gravitate towards convenience, optimizing my time over absolute performance. I’ve built five PCs in my life, and now I only own a macbook. I spent loads of time optimizing my hifi setup, and now most of my apartment is sonos. And I have probably 1k worth of nice japanese knives + whetstones, that I would happily replace with a single knife that needs little to no upkeep.
Most people don't sharpen their knives enough and therefore they have to expend a lot of effort to sharpen them.
If your knife is only slightly dull it takes 10 seconds to resharpen it, unlike if you've gotten the edge all folded over and such.
Still won't buy one but still.
Signed, a guy living nearby the home of QVC in a decidedly non-tech area of the US.
Ps. don’t buy future e-waste kitchen ware unless you have accessibility reasons. You can get a good-enough victoronix 8” chef knife for $65 (I paid $36 a long time ago) and a world class chef knife for less than $250.
Ultrasonic knives are historically large footprint devices used in commercial/industrial food prep. The innovation here is making ultrasonic hardware compact enough to fit in the knife handle.
I was using ultrasonic scalpels back in 2002. They were smaller than this knife.
My first job was at a knife shop so I’ve seen everything from stamped steel fantasy nonsense to traditional style hand forged items. There’s a lot that goes into making a good knife and you don’t need to spend a lot to get one. Similarly you can spend a lot of money for marginal to no benefit.
In general a hard edge with a softer back is necessary for a strong knife that will cut well. This is a function of heat treatment. A knife that is tempered the same the whole blade is fine for smaller knives but it’s possible to break the tips or edges off larger knives. From there metallurgy affects the edge retention and how easy it is to sharpen. Plain 440C will make a fine enough knife if heat treated properly but can also make blades that can’t be made particularly sharp and can’t easily be sharpened. These knives will be very stainless so this is why poor quality and good quality knives will be made in 440C. The next tier of knives beyond singular steel forging will be a very hard edge steel wrapped around a softer core steel. The sky is the limit from there in terms of metallurgy. The highest end knives will use powdered steel where precisely composed steel bars are made using uniform grains of steel and other attractive metals and doping materials as part of the forging process.
Once it gets home a good edge has to be maintained.
People do all sorts of things to dull perfectly good cutlery (I cringe when I see people use glass or marble serving/cheese boards as a cutting board). A off hand toss of a knife into a sink can roll the edge.
The worst offense is when I see someone at a farmers market with the grinding wheel “sharpening” a knife by crudely removing the hardened steel edge of a knife. Good luck cutting much with the softer core steel or softer tempered back steel.
While having an Evangelion style ultrasonic knife is cool, it’s certainly not necessary and I expect it can be ruined in many of the same ways a $400 traditional knife can be.
At home I have Henkels for the holidays and some forged food service knife’s for general use. When visitors throw the food service knives into the sink I just take out the sharpening stones and don’t cry all that much.
I'd try one out of professional/academic curiosity (I'm a chef), but am highly skeptical of this product. It looks like absolute trash.
All the people saying this knife does anything remarkable clearly have no experience in maintaining a decent knife blade. I've got knives that I've had for over 20 years that perform as well as this thing appears to (in the slick prepared advertisement).
Having said all that, you won't find an accurate takedown of a product that isn't on the market yet. Still, I can't help but wonder if the person behind this had dedicated that effort towards helping mitigate the water crisis, deforestation, or any number of other inarguably nobler pursuits.
(and yes the Japanese steel dulls too. No cheating physics.)
Higher HRC would retain the sharp edge for longer, of course - but again much harder (literally) to sharp them.
Is he lying? He shows images of the prototypes. Did he create fake prototypes?
But if you do this will be excellent tech for melee weapons.
i think they slapped seattle on it because of the Seattle Supersonics, their old NBA team that still has a cult following
I tried a compatible strop that clicks in but it's not worth it imo; just use a normal strop.
When it does come time to sharpen, I constantly see places offering knife sharpening services, and they’re usually cheap enough. Or you could get a gizmo that does a mediocre job (and shaves away far too much material) if you just want to get it done. Or you could learn to do it yourself which isn’t that hard or time-consuming but is somewhat of a labor of love.
Learning to sharpen the (correct) knife (for the task) will do as much or more for the chef who struggles here.
Prepping 1000 lemons? An ultrasonic knife is not your answer.
Like, how about that _planned obsolescence_ of a vast majority of consumer electronics hardware? (If that ain't the case, would be happen to learn otherwise from someone with better knowledge.)
To 99% of people, “just sharpen your knife regularly” is about as realistic as “just set up a Linux FTP server with rsync and…”
Otoh: this is NOT how a person cuts with a knife! Kills credibility of the whole complicated measurement with the robot. Just ask a chef to cut on a scale. You will be surprised. People can cut with semi-dull knife by pulling the knife towards their body not pushing down towards the cutting surface.
If the thing proves somehow useful, mass adoption and mass production slashes the cost 2-3 orders of magnitude, and the thing becomes mundane.
Otherwise it becomes forgotten as a weird gimmick.
Let's wait another 15 years.
That said, they come with two big caveats. First, if you push them into any harder material, the edge is destroyed almost immediately because of the micro-scale "jackhammer" action. So, hit that avocado pit and the knife is probably cooked.
Second, the constant motion heats up the blade, to the point of melting thermoplastics or causing the edge to lose temper if you're pushing a bit too hard, cutting the wrong material, etc.
It's your money, but I suspect this knife is more of a hassle, and requires more care, than a regular kitchen knife. And let's face it, the coolness factor aside, how often do you struggle to cut chicken, tomatoes, or bread? If you do, it's probably because your knife is dull, and this knife will get dull too.
Could this improve the texture and flavor of certain foods? Like make garlic taste even more garlicky? Or could it cause an apple slice to brown faster? Can it be used to slice cooked fish as if it were sashimi? Etc.
If a site like SeriousEats does a product review I hope they focus on qualitative taste, and possibilities for enhancing cooking techniques, not merely saving time/effort to do something.
if you used a knife to actually slice the tomato instead of chopping it, you'd get a much different force result.
not to say there's no benefit here, but def feels intentionally exaggerated.
also, i wonder how fast this blade will wear if you ever accidentally pressed the edge into the cutting block. my guess is that it will wear much faster.
I definitely did notice that the video didn't show any bulk prep work: a clean cut through a single product is not nearly as interesting to me as how cleanly and quickly I can work through a couple onions.
I’d still never get one because I love my knives (and zen out hard when sharpening for an hour or two), but the push is literally the goal here.
i was just saying they compare it to normal knives being used incorrectly.
To use Scott's words it is very cool to see such a tech translation from industry to home use. I would still be cautious about the lifetime of these devices (namely how it will deal with water ingress over time) but the fact that they will come out of a factory is already quite a HW startup feat.
Most people don't maintain their knives well and they get really ineffective over time. Others who do, probably won't buy this...
This guy did a 6 year multidisciplinary grind to produce a stunning consumer product. Exemplary
BTW I think the focus on knife sharpness is overrated for most kitchen tasks. At least for home cooks. Your knives should just have the necessary sharpness. More than that is a negative in my opinion.
Scott in the video makes the argument that sharp knives are safer, because you don't have to use as much force. But the only time I've ever cut myself with a knife in the kitchen have been with very sharp knives, eg one time handling it while washing the blade.
At the same time, I've been using a $5 chef knife for almost a decade and just giving it a few passes against a honing steel every few weeks. It gets plenty sharp after that, to the point where I don't feel I'm missing anything. Then again, I'm just a home cook who's super into kitchen knives so I acknowledge I'm not in the target market.
All of my knives have sticking issues, potato slices are the worst culprits. When doing a lot of prep work on veggies in a cramped area it's a pain and this seems like it could actually fix things?
OTOH, I'm not a huge fan of the design, I don't mind spending good money on a knife but between the blade profile and the chonky handle, it looks like an hybrid between an 8" fibrox and an electric turkey cutter.
If there was a premium release with a fancier handle (could wood work?) and a nicer blade profile (something like a gyuto or a french sabatier) I would be interested and I think it would reduce sticker shock (looks premium, expect premium price). I love the design of the charging tile though!
All you need is a sharpening steel and use it once or twice after every usage. Even a cheap knife will last for years while remaining reasonable sharp. Mine was €6 or thereabouts at Tesco two years ago and is more than sharp enough.
Of course more expensive knifes (ultrasonic or not) are better and can hold an edge longer. You can spend more time, effort, and money on making them sharper than just a quick use of a cheap sharpening steel. If you want to spend the extra money: go for it! But for a normal home cook: you can go a long way with consistent use of a €10 sharpening steel.
Also would be nice if it can be fitted to existing blades as handle retrofit, but I understand that might not be possible to properly tune the vibrations.
Also: I'd be curious how this feels in the hand due to the button and the extra weight.
If this knife works as well as the pitchman says, that's amazing. Just don't touch the edge.
I've gotten into the habit of using one of those slatted knife sharpeners before every use of my knife. It works well enough.
The shot of the scale showing force as they cut through a tomato was more compelling. I notice after the initial breach, when the knife is about halfway through, the forces are equal again. I assume that's due (at least in part) to friction between the inside of the tomato and the wide, side of the blade. Do they make a skinnier vibro-blade, or something like an ultrasonic cheese cutting wire?
I do wonder if a tuning fork or 'mass on a stick' hidden in the tang could provide enough vibration to help with the sticking. You'd probably have to smack it with every cut but it's so rarely a problem that would be fine.
When you say ugly/clunky - I'm guessing you mean it's a bit heavier, or the weight will be off compared to a good high-end chef's knife? (I don't have anything like that, haha).
I did note on their FAQ they say to never activate the blade whilst sharpening:
https://seattleultrasonics-ceizljlxnpt.gorgias.help/en-US/ho...
> Do not activate the ultrasonics during sharpening - this can damage both the blade and your sharpening stones, as the ultrasonic movement is too aggressive and not evenly distributed across the entire cutting edge. Also, reshaping the blade to a different belly curvature or tip shape can cause it to fall out of tune, so avoid removing more material than you would during normal sharpening.
Probably not great, otherwise they would have shown it, but being able to cut frozen food properly would be a game changer. The only things I found working are saws, and they are messy.
For instance, I flatten ground meat into 1lb "patties" and don't freeze it as a roll. I can literally snap the patty in half if I want half a pound, and the increase in surface area means rapid thawing if I place it, still in its storage bad (ziplock usually, but vacuum seal sometimes), into room temp water.
Way outside the price range I'd consider personally but I look forward to having one in 5 years at a hopefully lower price point
Maybe if the home chef who needs a leg up sees this it would prevent them from spending that much or more on more expensive knives and maintenance products. For those of us who know our way around the kitchen I’m not sure how much benefit I would get out of it.
Also did anyone think some of the cutting segments, particularly the radish, seemed sped up? The movement of the blade and hand looked a bit unnatural.
I never knew if this was the summum of how sharp my knives could be, or where I bring them on a "sharpness" scale of 1 to 5 for a given knife.
I was also wondering if this depends on the knife - with some knives being better for such electrical sharpener and some worse.
These things are now so sharp they can bring an edge profile back to a knife in five strokes without even needing lubrication (which is nice as water is a PITA when it causes corrosion between the steel bed and the plating.)
Every knife in your kitchen can be razor sharp in seconds and kept razor sharp whenever you need them to be. IMHO, far more useful than a single digi-vibro-knife.
Example product: Trend 300/1000 diamond sharpening kit.
Also, while it's true that dull knives are in some ways more dangerous than properly maintained ones, that doesn't mean safety increases monotonically with sharpness. I sharpen my kitchen knives every weekend and I'm perfectly capable of achieving an edge I could comfortably shave with, but I deliberately don't (I skip the highest-grit step and leather stropping needed for that) because it's not optimal for the vast majority of cooking tasks. The only thing that happens regularly in my kitchen that needs razor sharpness is scoring the top of a sourdough loaf, and my wife uses actual razor blades for that.
This strikes me as more of a competitor to electric carving knives than something I'd want to replace a standard chef's knife with. It looks like it needs to be used with very great care.
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/27/1031732394/springfree-trampol...
To me it has immediate appeal to make cutting easier. It's also really not that expensive. I suppose this is the same site that is crazy about AI and thought Dropbox would flop. This thing has more utility than AI to me. I suppose being a software person can warp your perception of the real world.
I'm trying to think of a place for this in any kitchen, home or professional, and cannot see it being safe or all that useful...especially for $400.
It's a cool idea and really makes wanna go watch The Bad Batch again, BX Battle Droids carry vibroblades, but other than pure novelty it aint cuttin it for me.
Bonus for the buy-curious: Getchu a hydrodynamic spatula…jk. Get a nice 160mm - 200mm carbon steel gyuto, Tojiro makes pretty good entry level knives; a paring knife, and a Mercer white handle offset bread knife (a classic) and that’s all you need. For sharpening, a medium grit, muddy synthetic whetstone, I’m a huge fan of Aoto 2-4k, and you don’t really need much else for getting started, but in a way that even the serious pros will know you’re doing the right things. Maybe you need a strop, maybe. Chromium Oxide on leather or cork. Oh, and a SOFT wood cutting board. Hinoki wood is the undisputed king of cutting boards, or you could go with a no-trax self healing synth rubber if you have the $$. Put a wet kitchen towel/papertowel under your cutting boards so they don’t move around when you’re using them. Haste makes waste, and a wet towel is a hot towel.
Leave the money on the dresser.
I have decent knives but have probably never sharpened them properly. If there are more reviews, I'd pick this up.
https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1245797052/vintage-60s-phili...
I was just curious about two things - seems there might be some knife aficionados or experts here!
1. Sharpening - As a home cook, who doesn't know a lot about knives/sharpening - how hard would this be to maintain? Would it be plausible to get some basic home sharpening gear, and maintain this myself? Or should I take it to a professional knife sharpener - and if so, how do I even know if they're a good one, and won't damage the blade, or perhaps are good, but somehow get the blade out of "tune" etc?
2. Safety wise - is there anything at all to be concerned about with ultrasonic 40Khz blades? Should I be wearing any hearing protection when using this? (Context - I have hearing loss in both ears, and wear hearing aids - keen to preserve my remaining hearing, and am understandably cautious about this kind of thing for my family and me).
A few YT knife channels have done deep dives showing why they stop working soon after purchase, the details escape me but I have to agree with the end result....
I'm highly doubtful it's useful in the kitchen. Sharp knives would seem to do the trick.
No tang whatsoever, so the knife has no strength. It's probably unbalanced, which makes it awkward to use with finesse and speed. A year of heavy use and the "haft" will degrade to the point that it's dangerous.
Buy a proper carbon steel knife. You can keep it sharp forever with 5 minutes on youtube and $20 worth of kit from Amazon. Plus, it will never go flat.
They show the knife being touched from the side but of course that's safe
Just computers, no? IIRC they use knives because the shields stop fast-moving objects like bullets, so you need a slow-moving object like a knife.
the guy mentions cutting self occurs mostly due to excessive force applied by the (amateur/inexperienced) user and i kind of agree.
other part is that the inattentiveness and distraction, maybe trying to be fast... although if i were able to cut through (pun intended) things that easily, i would be steadier hand...
Although not a pro, or even a good cook, I do like quality knives — but, like most people who develop a casual nice-knife affinity, I then bought a few quality knives, a couple of junk knives to try restoring with a whetstone, a hand-made Japanese knife with my name on it, and... then I had enough kitchen knives to last the rest of my life, and there was no reason to buy any more.
This is the first one I have considered in years. Not because I need it, or because it's necessarily better at cutting must things than the workhorse Sekimagoroku nakiri I use[1] but because it's fucking neat and radiates nerdium waves.
This knife should be celebrated for what it is: basically an epic nerd project. That can also cut at least a few kinds of fruit more easily (or at least more enjoyably).
[1]: KAI model AE5206 (which seems very much like a Shun knife, made by the same company, but cost me only $53)
a knife is for detail work like stripping meat. on bulk/speed/uniformity you cannot beat a slicer with a knife.
You obviously don't apply flat pressure on a tomato until it breaks, you slice it by sliding the blade forward as you push down. It's unclear to me that this blade offers any improvement over proper technique, and feels disingenuous to even offer that comparison.
Probably (and precisely) because you can only achieve this with a knife that cuts very well.
And then for most any other situation of knife usage it isn't necessary at all, as knives are mostly used for chopping. The one (1) thing I can see this being useful for is a shrunken down version for paring, but whether or not that is mechanically feasible, I don't know. The curve and the handle are more important than this vibro-verbing.
Nice dialogue, btw. "Help chefs feel great about themselves in the kitchen", "access to sous vide". <Kitchen Woke> ?
Um, no.
I mean I get that you spent some R&D money on developing this thing, but selling something direct to consumers at 10X the BoM cost is abhorrent.
TL;DR it's really freaking cool, though the blades do seem to get dull fairly quickly. That said, they are made of a radically different grade of steel.
If the tech in the NeoBlade has been adapted successfully to the chef's knife, then all of the haters are going to sound like all of the early "you don't need an air fryer" pundits who totally missed the point and were clearly wrong.
Also, all of the "why would I care if I can aerosolize citrus" commenters have clearly never worked in a cocktail bar. Which isn't a knock; this is Hacker News, after all. Just know that there are people who make fancy drinks who would pay a lot to be able to do this easily. If you are the sort of person who spends time thinking about clear ice, you don't need this explained to you.
Also, portable air fryers make such small servings that they're useless for people with families. What the hell I going to do with three chicken wings?
Get a good steel knife, learn how to sharpen it properly, and you're set for life.
Also I'd not use a soaking whetsone {anymore} (my spouse resents them for being that messy).
Like holy shit, I'm just going to pay someone a few dollars to do it because I don't want to bother sorting out all of the contradictory advice!