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0 pointsdaveidol7mo ago0 comments

Sure you can make a blog without a framework. But for complex applications it’s far better/easier than raw DOM manipulation or rolling your own thing.

0 comments

zelphirkalt7mo ago

Compare how many "complex applications" on the browser there are, with how many cargo culting blogs that employ react to render client side what could be static pages with text.

austin-cheney7mo ago

I disagree. It’s actually the same effort either way, but one of those costs substantially more to maintain and performs far slower.

adastra227mo ago

It is not obvious to me which one you are talking about.

austin-cheney7mo ago

The framework solution will end up costing more over the life of your application due to artificial restrictions, leaky abstractions, extra dependencies, performance decreases, and more code to maintain. In most cases all of those are acceptable if the developers are less comfortable making original architectural decisions.

For me that comfort is achieved through reuse and audits around data structure types through use of TypeScript. Now that ThpeScript is natively supported in Node it’s even faster still because there is no need for a build or compile step. The code just runs as is. This is also even true for code that executes only in the browser so long as it’s imported into a node module, which I do anyway to reduce the number of file requests into the browser.

netbioserror7mo ago

We should probably be making widget toolkits for the Canvas and using WebSockets for communication. DOM manipulation is a total hack-job. It's somewhat flexible, but the performance and dark-pattern cost is just too great. If you're making an interactive application, then treat it like an application and draw widgets to a canvas.

ioseph7mo ago

This is an insane take, show me a responsive button with hover state and a tooltip implemented in the canvas that outperforms a button rendered with React.

rc17mo ago

Figma?

christophilus7mo ago

Accessibility suffers with that approach.

extra887mo ago

It doesn't just suffer it's impossible unless you recreate the whole thing with actual HTML behind the <canvas> rendered version.

zelphirkalt7mo ago

Don't forget about the privacy cost associated with the canvas. If this ever becomes widespread, we will have many many sites extract browser fingerprinting information from the canvas. It would then move the game one more step towards dystopia, where we have to analyze and block certain ways of code interacting with the canvas and it might even prove impossible. And then incapable web devs will offer you no solution but canvas buttons for the login to your bank account. No, I don't think this is the way forward.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

zelphirkalt7mo ago

Compare how many "complex applications" on the browser there are, with how many cargo culting blogs that employ react to render client side what could be static pages with text.

austin-cheney7mo ago

I disagree. It’s actually the same effort either way, but one of those costs substantially more to maintain and performs far slower.

adastra227mo ago

It is not obvious to me which one you are talking about.

austin-cheney7mo ago

netbioserror7mo ago

ioseph7mo ago

This is an insane take, show me a responsive button with hover state and a tooltip implemented in the canvas that outperforms a button rendered with React.

rc17mo ago

Figma?

christophilus7mo ago

Accessibility suffers with that approach.

extra887mo ago

It doesn't just suffer it's impossible unless you recreate the whole thing with actual HTML behind the <canvas> rendered version.

zelphirkalt7mo ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse