undefined | Better HN

0 pointskevincox7mo ago0 comments

I guess it depends how you looked at it. Performance-wise AV1 seems more similar to h265. Hardware support wise h266 seems to have only had shipping hardware this year?

So I guess neither of these line up 1:1. I tend to see h265 and AV1 competing pretty hard right now so I tend to think of those as one generation and presumably h266 and AV2 will compete as the next generation.

0 comments

cogman107mo ago

The way MPEG runs things there are some oddness with the likes of H265. MPEG likes to add little extensions to a codec over time. That's why H265 was first released in 2013 but ultimately had like 10 different extensions after that fact (the last one in 2024).

AV1 and VP9/VP8 before that have, in contrast, been pretty much static after they were released. AV1 has had a single errata after it's release.

So I could see why you'd see H265 as the competitor. I mostly don't simply because I believe they explicitly stated that they were trying to be competitive with 266.

I personally prefer the way AOMedia is running things and I suspect hardware manufacturers do as well. No licenses and AOM is creating open source reference encoders/decoders. They are working very hard to make it easy for manufacturers to be able to pick up the spec and run with it. Keeping the stream standard static for a long period also means manufacturers don't have to worry that they won't get a new extension next year. Content encoders are also reasonably guaranteed that their encoding with today's software still works with yesteryear hardware.

MPEG, on the other hand, is paywalling the crap out of everything.

jorvi7mo ago

> So I could see why you'd see H265 as the competitor. I mostly don't simply because I believe they explicitly stated that they were trying to be competitive with 266.

That is some major revisionist history.

AV1 was created to suck all the oxygen out of the room for h265, and hopefully be finished soon enough that most chipsets would implement AV1 instead of h265, because no one would want to pay the royalty fees. This would then be a major boon to Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Netflix and Amazon. Only Apple had vested interest in h265.

Instead, h265 was finished very fast and Apple almost immediately implemented it on their iPhone chipsets, with their end goal being much smaller video recording sizes at high resolution and FPS. Then Intel added h265 decode to Quick Sync. This was the nail in the coffin for AV1. AV1 is only now seeing some limited uptake.

Hopefully AV2 can have its bitstream / spec frozen in time and garner hardware support before h266 does, otherwise the AV codecs will be forever niche because the MPEG group will always have the lead in hardware decode.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse