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0 pointsmonooso6mo ago0 comments

Laravel uses the active record pattern, same as Rails. If anything, the Laravel implementation is the more pragmatic of the two.

It's fine if you don't like that pattern (I have my own misgivings), but it's a perfectly viable approach used by a lot of very experienced developers to build very successful applications.

Dismissing everyone who uses a framework or design pattern you dislike as "junior developers who don't care about pesky things like maintainability and scalability" is inaccurate, rude, and ignorant.

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bakugo6mo ago

> it's a perfectly viable approach used by a lot of very experienced developers to build very successful applications.

"Lots of people use it" doesn't make it good. Lots of people in the past have written "successful" web applications as loose PHP files with little structure, no classes, using associative arrays everywhere (including me when I was starting out), but today it's generally agreed upon that this is not a good idea and will result in more bugs, maintenance headaches and an all around inferior developer experience, so what makes "active record" different?

I'd understand your point if it had at least some advantages over the ORM approach to make up for the clear disadvantages, but I just don't really see any beyond "it seems easier and requires writing less code" (which, as I said, primarily appeals to beginner developers who just want to get things done as fast as possible and don't understand the long-term consequences). Are there any hidden advantages I'm not aware of?

monoosoOP6mo ago

> "Lots of people use it" doesn't make it good.

I didn't say it was good (or bad), I said it's a perfectly viable approach.

> Lots of people in the past have written "successful" web applications as loose PHP files with little structure, no classes, using associative arrays everywhere (including me when I was starting out), but today it's generally agreed upon that this is not a good idea.

You're right, which is why, in 2025, no experienced developer builds web applications in this way.

Plenty of experienced developers build web applications using the active record pattern.

>Are there any hidden advantages I'm not aware of?

You mean aside from others having a different opinion about the relative pros and cons of active record, or personal preference?

bakugo6mo ago

> Plenty of experienced developers build web applications using the active record pattern.

Yes, but why? Why was the "loose PHP files with no framework" pattern abandoned, but not active record, when in many ways it's a remnant of the same era with many of the same drawbacks?

> You mean aside from others having a different opinion about the relative pros and cons of active record

I'm asking what the pros are.

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bakugo6mo ago

> it's a perfectly viable approach used by a lot of very experienced developers to build very successful applications.

monoosoOP6mo ago

> "Lots of people use it" doesn't make it good.

I didn't say it was good (or bad), I said it's a perfectly viable approach.

You're right, which is why, in 2025, no experienced developer builds web applications in this way.

Plenty of experienced developers build web applications using the active record pattern.

>Are there any hidden advantages I'm not aware of?

You mean aside from others having a different opinion about the relative pros and cons of active record, or personal preference?

bakugo6mo ago

> Plenty of experienced developers build web applications using the active record pattern.

Yes, but why? Why was the "loose PHP files with no framework" pattern abandoned, but not active record, when in many ways it's a remnant of the same era with many of the same drawbacks?

> You mean aside from others having a different opinion about the relative pros and cons of active record

I'm asking what the pros are.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse