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0 pointsadamfisk10mo ago0 comments

@reisse is 100% right. Most people outside of heavily censored regions have no clue what technology is actually used in those countries. The well-known, well-established providers don't actually work in censored regions because:

1) The problem is very difficult and requires a lot of engineering resources 2) It's very hard to make money in these countries for many reasons, including sanctions or the government restricting payments (Alipay, WeChatPay, etc)

The immediate response would be: "If the problem is so difficult, how can it be solved if not be well-known, well-established providers?"

The answer is simple: the crowdsourcing power of open source combined with billions of people with a huge incentive to get around government blocking.

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Hizonner10mo ago· 1 in thread

> It's very hard to make money in these countries for many reasons

Tor and I2P, for example, don't actually make money anywhere. Which is not to say that they work for any of the users in all of these places, or for all of the users in any of these places.

> The answer is simple: the crowdsourcing power of open source combined with billions of people with a huge incentive to get around government blocking.

The actual answer is that (a) they're using so many different weird approaches that the censors and/or secret police can't easily keep up with the whack-a-mole, and (b) they're relying on folklore and survivorship bias to tell them what "works", without really knowing when or how it might fail, or even whether it's already failing.

Oh, and most of them are playing for the limited stakes of being blocked, rather than for the larger stakes of being arrested. Or at least they think they are.

Maybe that's "solving" it, maybe not.

adamfiskOP10mo ago

You're dramatically underestimating the sophistication of these groups. Think about it: these people are risking their freedom by working on this technology in any capacity. They are not naive to the risks of the work nor are they naive to the technical threats facing the software. In fact, the opposite is true. Western VPN companies are very much naive because the risks their users face are much less severe, and at a technical level they don't require anywhere near the same level of sophistication. They're primarily just WireGuard and OpenVPN, which are trivial for censors to block.

Tor is great, and they do great research on censorship circumvention, but it isn't used at any significant scale in these countries.

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