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0 pointsFredPret10mo ago0 comments

- You don't need to have an iPhone

- You agree to the letter of the ToS when you click "I Agree" when you set up the iPhone,

- You also already agree to the spirit of the App Store when you buy it. After all, it's not some big secret

- You can get by with webapps for the most part anyway

- You can buy an Android, a flip phone, or pull a power move and have no phone

Buying an iPhone and then demanding that it has to work differently is acting in bad faith IMO.

0 comments

bitpush10mo ago

> Buying an iPhone and then demanding that it has to work

Buying something used to mean something. If you're still beholden by company rules of a product you _bought_, you have been leasing/renting it.

If I buy a house from a builder, and it came with a requirement that you can only use Amazon Ring cameras, or builder-approved groceries - you'd be pretty pissed.

_benton10mo ago

That's not a valid analogy. There isn't a "requirement" that you only use vanilla Apple software on an iPhone. More accurate would be that the house is set up for ring cameras and the builder doesn't support implementing any other type of camera system.

ghusto10mo ago

The house is set up for ring cameras and makes it either impossible or painful to use anything else. Not because of technical limitations, but in order to steer you away from competitors. Building something with it working in a particular way is fine, but building it in a particular way _in order_ for it not to work with competitors hurts everyone. I get the argument it's just because it makes their products work better, and call bullshit.

1 more reply

FredPretOP10mo ago

No, I just wouldn't buy that house.

But you're right, maybe we should invent a new word for a purchase that is encumbered by legal agreements or subscriptions.

lurking_swe10mo ago

i see you’ve never purchased a condo or lived within an HOA community.

Furthermore, in the US (and some other countries), you don’t _actually_ own a house or it’s land. you own the rights to that house (a deed) as long as you continue paying your property taxes. see what happens when you stop paying uncle sam… it’s kind of like a subscription lol.

FredPretOP10mo ago

Civilization-as-a-service

matkoniecz10mo ago

> - You agree to the letter of the ToS when you click "I Agree" when you set up the iPhone,

I reject that argument.

For start ToS may have unenforceable claims (if someone puts that I agree to give all things I own to them into ToS it has zero effect).

Also, at this point I dispute that ToS clickery should be treated as agreeing to them. "I have read and agree with ToS" is a blatant lie in at least in the first half.

palata10mo ago

The problem is that app developers can't ignore iOS because the market is too big. Therefore Apple can do whatever they want and developer have to accept their condition.

As a developer, there is no choice. Apple should not be able to abuse their dominant position.

FredPretOP10mo ago

The problem with this is in the very definition of what it means to be an "app" developer. You say "app" and most people immediately understand you mean the iPhone or Android kind, with all that entails.

These companies have been dominating the landscape for decades now, most likely for longer than most app developers have been app developers. As a developer, there's definitely a choice: don't make an iPhone app; don't make an app at all. Make something else.

If you say you want access to the walled garden because that's where the people are, then consider that they are in there because they like the walls. From this point of view, you don't have a right to demand that the walled garden have free entrance.

matkoniecz10mo ago

> From this point of view, you don't have a right to demand that the walled garden have free entrance.

there are other points of view, including one that monopolies should be illegal

palata10mo ago

> If you say you want access to the walled garden because that's where the people are, then consider that they are in there because they like the walls.

I disagree there. Most people I know who have an iPhone didn't choose Apple because they like walls. There are many other reasons to choose Apple other than "I like getting screwed by TooBigTech".

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

bitpush10mo ago

> Buying an iPhone and then demanding that it has to work

Buying something used to mean something. If you're still beholden by company rules of a product you _bought_, you have been leasing/renting it.

If I buy a house from a builder, and it came with a requirement that you can only use Amazon Ring cameras, or builder-approved groceries - you'd be pretty pissed.

_benton10mo ago

ghusto10mo ago

1 more reply

FredPretOP10mo ago

No, I just wouldn't buy that house.

But you're right, maybe we should invent a new word for a purchase that is encumbered by legal agreements or subscriptions.

lurking_swe10mo ago

i see you’ve never purchased a condo or lived within an HOA community.

FredPretOP10mo ago

Civilization-as-a-service

matkoniecz10mo ago

> - You agree to the letter of the ToS when you click "I Agree" when you set up the iPhone,

I reject that argument.

For start ToS may have unenforceable claims (if someone puts that I agree to give all things I own to them into ToS it has zero effect).

Also, at this point I dispute that ToS clickery should be treated as agreeing to them. "I have read and agree with ToS" is a blatant lie in at least in the first half.

palata10mo ago

The problem is that app developers can't ignore iOS because the market is too big. Therefore Apple can do whatever they want and developer have to accept their condition.

As a developer, there is no choice. Apple should not be able to abuse their dominant position.

FredPretOP10mo ago

matkoniecz10mo ago

> From this point of view, you don't have a right to demand that the walled garden have free entrance.

there are other points of view, including one that monopolies should be illegal

palata10mo ago

> If you say you want access to the walled garden because that's where the people are, then consider that they are in there because they like the walls.

I disagree there. Most people I know who have an iPhone didn't choose Apple because they like walls. There are many other reasons to choose Apple other than "I like getting screwed by TooBigTech".

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse