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0 pointssam_lowry_0y ago0 comments

Mohammed bin Salman? He is probably a complex man, but by accident of history the only thing we know about him is the killing of Khashoggi and the gnarly details of the body disposal process.

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5 comments · 1 top-level

thomassmith650y ago· 4 in thread

That's the one, unfortunately.

In Saudi Arabia, if you're not someone he wants to torture or kill, you can enjoy increased religious freedoms, gender equality, and international ties.

It's a bit like Iran before the revolution: the Shah was liberalizing and modernizing his nation, while at the same using SAVAK to torture his opposition.

ath3nd0y ago

> In Saudi Arabia, if you're not someone he wants to torture or kill, you can enjoy increased religious freedoms, gender equality, and international ties.

Increased compared to taliban rule? Wow, thanks so much to the benevolent dictator for allowing a woman to go out without a male companion without being stoned. And thank the benevolent dictator for not having an interest in me specially. All praise the guy who could dismember many people but chooses to do that only to a couple, and who could imprison many, but does it mostly to his family and whoever he pleases.

thomassmith650y ago

If there were an overwhelming majority in Saudi Arabia who demanded the full set of human rights we have in the West, then it would be unconscionable to say anything positive about Mohammed bin Salman.

This quote is from a story from before Saudi women got the right to drive. The piece argues it was a common take:

  Mashaal El-Maliki, a housewife:
  "Female driving will destroy family life because it will give husbands a chance to know other women who (as drivers) will be free and without guardians."

https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/02/saudi-prot...

The best path forward is whatever path is the shortest to making life bearable for liberal Saudis, but that doesn't end in conservative revolt (and deeper theocracy). When a considerable portion of a nation opposes basic freedoms, there are fewer viable options.

cholantesh0y ago

>the Shah was liberalizing and modernizing his nation

Quaint revisionism; in fact Mossadegh was already actually liberalizing and modernizing the nation while Pahlavi was turning it into a US/UK client state.

thomassmith650y ago

Neither Mossadegh nor Pahlavi were ideal leaders, and both were better than what Iran has today.

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5 comments · 1 top-level

thomassmith650y ago· 4 in thread

That's the one, unfortunately.

In Saudi Arabia, if you're not someone he wants to torture or kill, you can enjoy increased religious freedoms, gender equality, and international ties.

It's a bit like Iran before the revolution: the Shah was liberalizing and modernizing his nation, while at the same using SAVAK to torture his opposition.

ath3nd0y ago

> In Saudi Arabia, if you're not someone he wants to torture or kill, you can enjoy increased religious freedoms, gender equality, and international ties.

thomassmith650y ago

This quote is from a story from before Saudi women got the right to drive. The piece argues it was a common take:

  Mashaal El-Maliki, a housewife:
  "Female driving will destroy family life because it will give husbands a chance to know other women who (as drivers) will be free and without guardians."

https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/02/saudi-prot...

cholantesh0y ago

>the Shah was liberalizing and modernizing his nation

Quaint revisionism; in fact Mossadegh was already actually liberalizing and modernizing the nation while Pahlavi was turning it into a US/UK client state.

thomassmith650y ago

Neither Mossadegh nor Pahlavi were ideal leaders, and both were better than what Iran has today.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse