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0 pointsamval9mo ago0 comments

It marketed itself explicitly as a "Python superset", which could allow Python programmers to avoid learning a second language and write performant code.

I'd argue that I am not sure what kind of Python programmer is capable of learning things like comptime, borrow checking, generics but would struggle with different looking syntax. So to me this seemed like a deliberate misrepresentation of the actual challenges to generate hype and marketing.

Which fair enough, I suppose this is how things work. But it should be _fair_ to point out the obvious too.

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Certhas9mo ago

Absolutely. The public sales pitch did not match the reality. This is what I meant with the "Claim to be Ṕython to get VC money" point.

To first order, today every programmer starts out as a Python programmer. Python is _the_ teaching language now. The jump from Python to C/Cpp is pretty drastic, I don't think that it's absurd that learning Mojo concepts step by step coming from Python is simpler than learning C. Not syntactically but conceptually.

pjmlp9mo ago

Maybe young generations have some issue learning polyglot programming, I guess.

While I agree using Mojo is much preferable to writing C or C++ native extensions, back on my day people learned to program in K&R C or C++ ARM in high school, kids around 12 years old, hardly something pretty drastic.

ForHackernews9mo ago

No wonder there's so much terrible unsafe C floating around...

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ForHackernews9mo ago

I've tried learning C a couple times and given up because the curve is too steep to be worth the climb. It's not even the language itself, it's the inherited weight of half a century's worth of cruft. I can't spend weeks fighting with compiler nonsense, header files and #include. Screw it, I'll just use Go instead.

I'm learning Rust and Zig in the hope that I'll never have to write a line of C in my career.

blks9mo ago

Geez, what a comment. C is much much more simpler than Rust. You’re not supposed to be spending weeks fighting includes or compiler errors, that means you’re have some very basic misconceptions about the language.

Just read K&R “The C programming language” book. It’s fairly small and it’s a very good introduction to C.

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fwip9mo ago

I think one of the "Python superset" promises was that any particular dev wouldn't need to learn all of that at once. There could exist a ramp between Python and "fast python" that is more gradual than the old ways of dropping into C, and more seamless than importing and learning the various numpy/numba/polars libraries.

int_19h9mo ago

FWIW generics are already a thing in pure Python as soon as you add type annotations, which is fast becoming the default (perhaps not the least because LLMs also seem to prefer it).

fnands9mo ago

They've backed off a little from the Python superset claims and leaned more into "Python family".

> I'd argue that I am not sure what kind of Python programmer is capable of learning things like comptime, borrow checking

One who previously wrote compiled languages ;-). It's not like you forget everything you know once you touch Python.

amvalOP9mo ago

The second part of the sentence is very important ;)

"... but would struggle with different looking syntax"

oxidi9mo ago

I think the point was that Python syntax is simpler than e.g. borrow checking.

Although Python has some seriously PERLesque YOLO moments, like "#"*3 == "###". This is admittedly useful, but funny nonetheless.

pixelpoet9mo ago

I suppose if you accept the innocent-looking "#"+"#"=="##" then your example kind of algebraically follows. Next it's time to define what exp("#") is :)

mkl9mo ago

* does different things depending on the types of the operands, which is Python's strong typing at work, not Perlesque weak typing. Repeating a string is a useful thing to be able to do, and this is a natural choice of syntax for it. The same thing works for lists: [1]*3 == [1, 1, 1].

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Certhas9mo ago

Absolutely. The public sales pitch did not match the reality. This is what I meant with the "Claim to be Ṕython to get VC money" point.

pjmlp9mo ago

Maybe young generations have some issue learning polyglot programming, I guess.

ForHackernews9mo ago

No wonder there's so much terrible unsafe C floating around...

1 more reply

ForHackernews9mo ago

I'm learning Rust and Zig in the hope that I'll never have to write a line of C in my career.

blks9mo ago

Just read K&R “The C programming language” book. It’s fairly small and it’s a very good introduction to C.

5 more replies

fwip9mo ago

int_19h9mo ago

FWIW generics are already a thing in pure Python as soon as you add type annotations, which is fast becoming the default (perhaps not the least because LLMs also seem to prefer it).

fnands9mo ago

They've backed off a little from the Python superset claims and leaned more into "Python family".

> I'd argue that I am not sure what kind of Python programmer is capable of learning things like comptime, borrow checking

One who previously wrote compiled languages ;-). It's not like you forget everything you know once you touch Python.

amvalOP9mo ago

The second part of the sentence is very important ;)

"... but would struggle with different looking syntax"

oxidi9mo ago

I think the point was that Python syntax is simpler than e.g. borrow checking.

Although Python has some seriously PERLesque YOLO moments, like "#"*3 == "###". This is admittedly useful, but funny nonetheless.

pixelpoet9mo ago

I suppose if you accept the innocent-looking "#"+"#"=="##" then your example kind of algebraically follows. Next it's time to define what exp("#") is :)

mkl9mo ago

2 more replies

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse