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0 pointsbbor11mo ago0 comments

> Consciousness just doesn't fit with anything else we know about the world. It's a fundamental mystery as things currently stand, and there's no explanation that makes a bit of sense yet.

Well put. I think there's one extremely solid explanation, though: it's a folk psychology concept with no bearing on actual truth. After all, could we ever build a machine that has all four humours? What about a machine that truly has a Qi field, instead of merely imitating one? Where are the Humours and Qi research institutes dedicated to this question?

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slowmovintarget11mo ago

We're making progress in being able to measure qualia. [1],[2] If the philosophical underpinnings of emergence in a physicalist sense hold, then that is a stepping stone toward a theory of consciousness.

[1] https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(25)00289-5

wat1000011mo ago

That looks to be some major equivocation on "qualia." What they're actually measuring is related to how colors are perceived. That's very different from the actual subjective experience that is what we call consciousness. An intelligence that wasn't conscious would not be distinguishable in this test from a conscious being.

wat1000011mo ago

This sort of thing is why I seriously wonder if maybe some people have consciousness and some don't, rather than it being universal.

My experience of consciousness is undeniable. There's no question of the concept just being made up. It's like if you said that hands are a folk concept with no bearing on actual truth. Even if I can't directly detect anyone else's hands, my own are unquestionably real to me. The only way someone could deny the existence of hands in general is if they didn't have any, but I definitely do.

bborOP11mo ago

The point is that you believe you have something called consciousness, but when pressed no one can define it in a scientific (i.e. thorough+consistent) way. In comparison, I can absolutely define hands, and thus prove to myself that I (and others!) have them.

Regardless, some of the GangStalking people are 100% convinced that they have brain implants in their head that the federal government is manipulating -- belief is not evidence.

wat1000011mo ago

My point is that my experience of consciousness is more than sufficient proof. In fact, it is the only thing I can definitively with 100% certainty know is real. Other people's consciousness is a lot harder to demonstrate, but my own is incontrovertible to me.

The only way someone with that experience could say that it's not real is if they're taking the piss, they're very confused, or they just don't have it.

bborOP11mo ago

But what are you experiencing? Something that cannot be defined? If so, do you see the issue there?

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slowmovintarget11mo ago

[1] https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(25)00289-5

wat1000011mo ago

This sort of thing is why I seriously wonder if maybe some people have consciousness and some don't, rather than it being universal.

bborOP11mo ago

Regardless, some of the GangStalking people are 100% convinced that they have brain implants in their head that the federal government is manipulating -- belief is not evidence.

wat1000011mo ago

The only way someone with that experience could say that it's not real is if they're taking the piss, they're very confused, or they just don't have it.

bborOP11mo ago

But what are you experiencing? Something that cannot be defined? If so, do you see the issue there?

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