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0 pointsbrabel9mo ago0 comments

Given your example, I am convinced you've never written any Rust. Of course it does stop you doing shit like that. But in this example, even Java does it properly, since the constructor runs to completion before any Object is accessible to any Thread, not just the one creating it. You need to validate the state of the object in the constructor to prevent that, but TBH why are we talking about this, it's almost completely unrelated to concurrency models.

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gf0009mo ago

Of course if you are creating a new object and you have an atomic handle to it, it is trivial to solve. Like, having immutable objects solves a lot of these problems.

But what I'm quite obviously talking about is a Rust struct with 3 atomic fields. Just because I can safely race on any of its fields, doesn't mean that the whole struct can safely be shared, yet it will be inferred to be Sync.

tialaramex9mo ago

Object mutability isn't relevant here. A Date type which is mutable can ensure that all mutations are valid, it just can't do so while retaining this clumsy "LOL I'm just a D-M-Y tuple" API.

We can see immediately that your type is broken because it allows us to directly set the date to February 31st, there's no concurrency bug needed, the type was always defective.

gf0009mo ago

  void setDate(int month, int day) {
    if (notValidDate(month, date)) { throw; }

    this.month = month; // atomic
    this.day = day // atomic
  }

Yet the whole function is not "atomic"/transactional/consistent, and two threads running simultaneously may surface the above error.

Of course it can ensure that it is consistent, C code can also just ensure that it is memory safe. This is just not an inherent property, and in general you will mess it up.

The only difference is that we can reliably solve memory safety issues (GC, Rusty's ownership model), but we have absolutely no way to solve concurrency issues in any model. The only solution is.. having a single thread.

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gf0009mo ago

Of course if you are creating a new object and you have an atomic handle to it, it is trivial to solve. Like, having immutable objects solves a lot of these problems.

tialaramex9mo ago

Object mutability isn't relevant here. A Date type which is mutable can ensure that all mutations are valid, it just can't do so while retaining this clumsy "LOL I'm just a D-M-Y tuple" API.

We can see immediately that your type is broken because it allows us to directly set the date to February 31st, there's no concurrency bug needed, the type was always defective.

gf0009mo ago

  void setDate(int month, int day) {
    if (notValidDate(month, date)) { throw; }

    this.month = month; // atomic
    this.day = day // atomic
  }

Yet the whole function is not "atomic"/transactional/consistent, and two threads running simultaneously may surface the above error.

Of course it can ensure that it is consistent, C code can also just ensure that it is memory safe. This is just not an inherent property, and in general you will mess it up.

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