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0 points7bit10mo ago0 comments

> It has value because a student can only get it by learning and problem-solving.

No. It has value, because companies value it. It sets the starting point for your first salary and then for every salary negotiation moving forward.

As someone who did not go to university, but has the same knowledge self-taught I can tell you that this piece of paper would have opened so many doors and made life so much easier. It took me 15 years to get a salary, that people get with the piece of paper after graduating. And not because it took me 15 years to reach that level of knowledge. I had that by the time the other graduated.

I had a friend who always cheated in school, and now he works for a big car company and earned a fuck ton of money.

Life is unfair and companies only care about the paper your diploma is printed on. If students would ask me for advice, I would tell them to cheat whenever possible.

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slics10mo ago

You forgot one big reward with your approach. You are not 200k in debt which will take that kid with diploma to get that piece of paper. You are debt free.

I am not arguing on the merit of having a diploma is a bad thing - the colleges these days have turned their backs on the people as well.

Average $100k to get a piece of paper (LLMs are not the issue here the useless degrees that the colleges offer). Invest that $100k at an average 15% return - it becomes a lot of money 25 years from now.

Or get a piece of paper (if your major is useless) and pay the banks 100k + interest.

microtonal10mo ago

That’s a very American point of view though. In many European countries people don’t build up such big debts. I’m from NL and the upper bound among my friends was something like 50,000, but most people had much lower debts between 0 and 20,000. (Yay for lower enrollment fees + part of the money is given as a gift).

And even if you ramped up a 50k debt, it’s a government loan where the interest rates are low, your monthly pay off is based on your salary, and if you are not able to pay the debt within a certain period, it’s wiped away.

grumbelbart210mo ago

While you are fully right, that is very US-centric. Tuition is practically free in large parts of Europe, for example.

Ma8ee10mo ago

And companies value it because it signals that the holder of that paper can do the work and isn’t completely stupid.

samplatt10mo ago

In reality, holding a piece of paper has nothing in common with relevant ability. Some graduates will exit university as competent people, some won't.

This isn't exactly news, or even a recent phenomenon. My peers who finished their CS degree circa 2004 ish were a broad mix of utter idiots who shouldn't get a job in that field, or damn sharp (if green) technically-minded people, or somewhere in between.

The industry will sort them out; the ones that can, do, the ones that can't, will do something else of use, or find another job.

Jensson10mo ago

There is a correlation, that is all you need for it to be valuable. Remove the correlation and value isn't there any more, see US masters in computer science for example that one doesn't correlate with skill so it isn't valued, but the bachelor is. In countries where a masters is correlated with skill they are values though.

Ekaros10mo ago

I really think that they are used because it is easiest and cheapest fully legal filter. When you have significant number of candidates any filter that comes first to mind is selected. Degree is one such one that won't ever legally bite you.

immibis10mo ago

Originally, yes, but hiring practices are about as inbred as the artistic tastes of the demoscene, so now they value it because they value it.

7bitOP10mo ago

That holds the same truth as that all other person can't do the work and are completely stupid. Which is zero.

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