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0 pointsnumpad01y ago0 comments

Bluetooth isn't too bad, Logitech Bolt is based on BLE and it's just fine. Bigger problem is integration into x86/x86_64 platform.

0 comments

Findecanor1y ago

Bluetooth mice use the HID protocol borrowed from USB, except with Bluetooth as carrier. But HID had not been designed for the possibility that packets could get lost: it sends movements as a relative vector since the previous packet.

I don't know how Logi Bolt works, but Logitech has claimed that it should work better than BLE when the 2.4 GHz band is congested. Also that it would have better security than BLE.

freehorse1y ago

> But HID had not been designed for the possibility that packets could get lost

Doesn't the same problem exist for USB dongles with proprietary RF protocols?

Logi Bolt is a good solution. But ime most other USB dongles are terrible. I have had a lot of bad connection issues with such USB dongles, and never with similar bluetooth devices. USB dongles also use the same 2.4GHz band, and even more they are prone to interference from nearby active USB ports [0]. If you have ever had a "jumping" mouse while transfering big amounts of data through a port neighbouring your mouse's USB dongle, this is likely the reason.

[0] https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/327216.pdf

hmry1y ago

The proprietary protocol can use absolute positions between device/dongle, and then the dongle can translate to relative positions at the edge, by returning the difference since the last poll

2 more replies

frollogaston1y ago

In all the years I've used wireless dongled mice, I've never had an issue. And all my stuff is bottom of the barrel unbranded from eBay or Amazon.

Bluetooth mice and keyboards always have trouble pairing, or there's input lag, or sometimes I can't use them to wake the computer. And if you ever want to hold a startup key...

2 more replies

akvadrako1y ago

Bolt can't be better than BLE because it is BLE. Same with Apple gear which pairs so seemlessly.

It's just that they control both sides of the signal so can better optimize the connection.

numpad0OP1y ago

I mean, you can't type in BitLocker password wirelessly without a dongle. Optical mice sensors aren't so repeatable anyway, so missing a packet or two probably aren't so critical.

mystified50161y ago

I mean, they aren't putting raw HID packets on the air, they're encapsulated within another protocol that does handle reliable retransmission.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

Findecanor1y ago

I don't know how Logi Bolt works, but Logitech has claimed that it should work better than BLE when the 2.4 GHz band is congested. Also that it would have better security than BLE.

freehorse1y ago

> But HID had not been designed for the possibility that packets could get lost

Doesn't the same problem exist for USB dongles with proprietary RF protocols?

[0] https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/327216.pdf

hmry1y ago

The proprietary protocol can use absolute positions between device/dongle, and then the dongle can translate to relative positions at the edge, by returning the difference since the last poll

2 more replies

frollogaston1y ago

In all the years I've used wireless dongled mice, I've never had an issue. And all my stuff is bottom of the barrel unbranded from eBay or Amazon.

Bluetooth mice and keyboards always have trouble pairing, or there's input lag, or sometimes I can't use them to wake the computer. And if you ever want to hold a startup key...

2 more replies

akvadrako1y ago

Bolt can't be better than BLE because it is BLE. Same with Apple gear which pairs so seemlessly.

It's just that they control both sides of the signal so can better optimize the connection.

numpad0OP1y ago

I mean, you can't type in BitLocker password wirelessly without a dongle. Optical mice sensors aren't so repeatable anyway, so missing a packet or two probably aren't so critical.

mystified50161y ago

I mean, they aren't putting raw HID packets on the air, they're encapsulated within another protocol that does handle reliable retransmission.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse