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0 pointstreis11mo ago0 comments

This is somewhat disingenuous. Something like half of the grant is handed over to the University as overhead. Much of that is legit to cover things like labs but a lot of it goes to a cover a massive amount of administrative bloat.

Also, nobody really objects to the research that leads directly to stuff private industry can use. That's not what people want to cut.

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xracy11mo ago

The overhead is what makes research possible. How do you do research without a lab, or a building?

treisOP11mo ago

>Much of that is legit to cover things like labs

SoftTalker11mo ago

You include expenses for lab and facilities in your grant budget rather than as "overhead" ?

xracy11mo ago

That's not how facilities work or are accounted for.

Facilities are common to all of the university. It doesn't make sense to force this individual requirement on each grant when the University has hundreds of ways it is using a given building or lab equipment.

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drjasonharrison11mo ago

Antedote:

When I was a PhD student at the University of British Columbia in the Department of Computer Science research grant proposals included budgets for overhead. This was often, if I recall correctly, 10% of the overall equipment and salary budget. This was deemed a tax collected by the department and used to:

- pay IT staff salaries - pay IT hardware and service costs (storage, communication) - etc

Other costs on the research grant would include:

- hardware purchases: personal computers, specialized equipment, compute and storage servers - graduate student and postdoctoral student salaries - travel costs to conferences for students - consumables (if any)

Again, in Canada, there are various types of research grants. For example, the "Research Tools and Instruments grants program" will pay the entire cost of the equipment. This includes: shipping, customs fees, warranty/service contracts, software licensing, on-site training.

https://www.nserc-crsng.gc.ca/ResearchPortal-PortailDeRecher...

Note that travel, salary and benefits, consumables, renovations, lab infrastructure are not allowed.

For other types of grants the institution's "tax rate" is usually specified by the Department of Research, and can be as high as 25%. UBC hides it's rates behind a portal, but Simon Fraser University has a description of them: https://www.sfu.ca/research/researcher-resources/fund-my-res...

I won't speak to the amount of "administrative bloat" that universities have experienced during my two decades post graduation. While it exists, a tax rate of 25% seems quite reasonable when you consider the overall costs of research at a university compared to equivalent commercial office/lab space.

nkurz11mo ago

The numbers you are suggesting do indeed seem reasonable, and if those were the overheads being used, they would probably be justified. But I think current overheads are often much higher. Here for example is a recent article saying that the proposed 15% cap on overhead for NIH grants would be disastrous for universities like Harvard that currently have a 69% negotiated overhead rate: https://deliprao.substack.com/p/understanding-nihs-15-overhe...

To be fair, I'm not sure if that author is using the same definition that you are. In the article, they clarify that a 69% rate means that a $1,000,000 grant has an extra $690,000 paid to Harvard. Still, the idea that the rates should be the same for all institutions and should be closer to the numbers you remember certainly seems worth considering.

mattlutze10mo ago

>Also, nobody really objects to the research that leads directly to stuff private industry can use. That's not what people want to cut.

That's what they're cutting.

ss200311mo ago

That is disingenuous. People absolutely want to cut all University research without regard as to what it for.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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xracy11mo ago

The overhead is what makes research possible. How do you do research without a lab, or a building?

treisOP11mo ago

>Much of that is legit to cover things like labs

SoftTalker11mo ago

You include expenses for lab and facilities in your grant budget rather than as "overhead" ?

xracy11mo ago

That's not how facilities work or are accounted for.

2 more replies

drjasonharrison11mo ago

Antedote:

- pay IT staff salaries - pay IT hardware and service costs (storage, communication) - etc

Other costs on the research grant would include:

https://www.nserc-crsng.gc.ca/ResearchPortal-PortailDeRecher...

Note that travel, salary and benefits, consumables, renovations, lab infrastructure are not allowed.

nkurz11mo ago

mattlutze10mo ago

>Also, nobody really objects to the research that leads directly to stuff private industry can use. That's not what people want to cut.

That's what they're cutting.

ss200311mo ago

That is disingenuous. People absolutely want to cut all University research without regard as to what it for.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse