undefined | Better HN

0 points_heimdall11mo ago0 comments

Where do you draw that line though?

If you're talking about a person using an LLM, or some other ML system, to help generate their music then the LLM is really just a tool for that person.

I can't run 80 mph but I can drive a car that fast, its my tool to get the job done. Should I not be allowed to do that professionally if I'm not actually the one achieving that speed or carrying capacity?

Personally my concerns with LLMs are more related to the unintended consequences and all the unknowns in play given that we don't really know how they work and aren't spending much effort solving interoperability. If they only ever end up being a tool, that seems a lot more in line with previous technological advancements.

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bluefirebrand11mo ago

> I can't run 80 mph but I can drive a car that fast

If you drive a car 80mph you don't get to claim you are a good runner

Similarly if you use an LLM to generate 10k lines of code, you don't get to claim you are a good programmer

Regardless of the outcome being the "same"

baranul11mo ago

LLMs aren't that productive. 10k lines from it, is a lot of troubleshooting, from all kinds of errors. Enough so, that one would still do better without it. Not saying LLMs don't have their place or can't be helpful, but they aren't where many imagine them to be, when it comes to programming.

elliotbnvl11mo ago

You do get to claim that you’re a good getting-places-er, though, which is the only point of commercial programming.

bluefirebrand11mo ago

Project Managers will tell you that "getting to a place" is the goal

Then you get to the place and they say "now load all of the things in the garage into the truck"

But oops. You didn't bring a truck, because all they told you was "please be at this address at this time", with no mention of needing a truck

My point is that the purpose of commercial programming is not usually just to get to the goal

Often the purpose of commercial programming is to create a foundation that can be extended to meet other goals later, that you may not even be remotely aware of right now

If your foundation is a vibe coded mess that no one understands, you are going to wind up screwed

And yes, part of being a good programmer includes being aware of this

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probably_wrong11mo ago

> I can't run 80 mph but I can drive a car that fast, its my tool to get the job done.

Right, but if you use a chess engine to win a chess championship or if you use a motor to win a cycling championship, you would be disqualified because getting the job done is not the point of the exercise.

Art is (or should be) about establishing dialogues and connections between humans. To me, auto-generated art it's like choosing between seeing a phone picture of someone's baby and a stock photo picture of a random one - the second one might "get the job done" much better, but if there's no personal connection then what's the point?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 points_heimdall11mo ago0 comments

Where do you draw that line though?

If you're talking about a person using an LLM, or some other ML system, to help generate their music then the LLM is really just a tool for that person.

0 comments

bluefirebrand11mo ago

> I can't run 80 mph but I can drive a car that fast

If you drive a car 80mph you don't get to claim you are a good runner

Similarly if you use an LLM to generate 10k lines of code, you don't get to claim you are a good programmer

Regardless of the outcome being the "same"

baranul11mo ago

elliotbnvl11mo ago

You do get to claim that you’re a good getting-places-er, though, which is the only point of commercial programming.

bluefirebrand11mo ago

Project Managers will tell you that "getting to a place" is the goal

Then you get to the place and they say "now load all of the things in the garage into the truck"

But oops. You didn't bring a truck, because all they told you was "please be at this address at this time", with no mention of needing a truck

My point is that the purpose of commercial programming is not usually just to get to the goal

Often the purpose of commercial programming is to create a foundation that can be extended to meet other goals later, that you may not even be remotely aware of right now

If your foundation is a vibe coded mess that no one understands, you are going to wind up screwed

And yes, part of being a good programmer includes being aware of this

1 more reply

probably_wrong11mo ago

> I can't run 80 mph but I can drive a car that fast, its my tool to get the job done.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse