Layoffs here are always done in conjunction with the unions. People are moved to different jobs, helped with training etc...
Only in very critical jobs they'd walk you out immediately but then you still get the pay.
People literally would just disappear day to day. I've had several instances where I only found out a colleague had been fired because I tried to write them on Slack only to find that their account had been deactivated
Personally I felt constantly worried working in such an environment and I don't want to work for another US company again if I can help it
There are of course bad cases in the EU, but in my experience it's way less common than in the US
I watched a layoff take out half the security team during an incident. That was fun.
I feel like global acronym bankruptcy is overdue.
There's a scene where they put a folder in front of him with a brightly-coloured sailboat on the cover labelled "LOOKING AHEAD." It's exactly as grim as it sounds.
"I hope, considering your [pause to check personnel file] over nineteen years of service to the firm you will understand that these measures are in no way a reflection of the firm's feelings towards your performance or your character"
You can work for a US company in the UE. They have to follow the local rules like anybody else.
Most of my colleagues were shocked by the treatment. Moral took a dive after that.
One thing that I saw (but never experienced myself) happen with North American companies wanted to leave EU is just doing their usual things (thus not following local rules), and then people have to sue and wait many years to be compensated.
> where I only found out a colleague had been fired because I tried to write them on Slack only to find that their account had been deactivated
The colleague will just be one that's based in the US, but that doesn't make it much easier.
An employee decided to be laid off is equally written off immediately, it's just delegated to the regional/local HR to "manage the rest".
If you're not escorted off-premise, you get to enjoy some additional days/weeks of colleagues and managers telling you how surprised they were...
its much easier to find another job in US because of this though.
Most purely European companies don't do that. Actually, unfortunately, some of them do, because of American influence. But for sure they didn't use to.
Europe is vastly diverse and your experience is not representative of all Europe.
As in after a termination there's a period during which you're still supposed to work and collect the salary.
Exceptions are B2B contracts (but they still often have one of those) and some piece work contracts.
Of course a particular bastard of a company can still immediately cut you off everything but the salary including the doors.
In the UK big corporations got a loophole where they can get employees without affording them any rights. It's called IR35 that Tory government amended to facilitate this, as Brexit benefit (the regulation would have been illegal otherwise if we were still in the EU).
It's totally legal to fire employee without any notice for any reason or even pay them below minimum wage.
It was stark, the difference in process between the two countries. Leadership was openly complaining about how they couldn't close out shuttering the company because it was going to take six months to handle legal compliance in Germany.
This was during an all-hands, and one delightfully brave soul who knew it didn't matter much what he said since we were all exiting anyway commented in the public channel "Because of those laws, the American employees also get a six-month heads up instead of a locked door when they drive in in the morning, so today, we're all very grateful to Germany and our German peers."
I never felt good about that company ever again.
As someone from Europe, I’ve never experienced US salaries. Go figure.
Such things definitely exist, but they are far less common than is often implied here on HN and elsewhere. I think this is largely because people who don't work long hours are much less likely to wax poetic about it, just because, well, it's not at all unusual or interesting.
In the end someone who was working at Google in the Bay Area for 15-20 years can retire if they didn't have life style creep (which is different than cost of living). Not the case in Europe.
Basically, almost all places, particularly in the UK, have worse salary to cost of living ratios.
Well, getting escorted out definitely doesn't happen here either at least.
It 100% does. It happened to me in Brno, Czechia, and this February I interviewed someone to whom the same thing happened and who was attempting to sue for unfair dismissal.
Yes, it may be different for full-time non-contract jobs, but once you're on a contract, nobody cares.
Here in the Netherlands contractors are also 'at will employed' as the Americans say.
But they pay you more so...
Contractors don't have that kind of support pretty much anywhere (that's sort of the point), and it's just a standard contract dispute that lawyers argue about.
We are a law and order country.
You got yourself played
>Only in very critical jobs they'd walk you out immediately but then you still get the pay.
Presumably you are also still employed, just not given any tasks. I do not think that here in Germany there is any way to immediately fire someone, just because he was working on something critical.
Many companies refuse to do layoffs entirely. Which often means that they have difficulties responding to changes in the environment or need to heavily rely on contractors.
That is something both sides have to agree on. So it can not be considered "firing".
>Freistellung
You are still employed, just have no tasks assigned to you. Completely different scenario for the employee, who now can look for a new job, while still being paid as if he were employed. Arguably it is even better than being let go, but having to continue working. Definitely anything but a "firing on the spot".
Yeah, no. Also European, and have been marched out without notice, cut off that day with no chance to say goodbye, etc.
1. Which countries are we talking about? Europe is not homogeneous
2. Which type of business? Are workers unionized?
