undefined | Better HN

0 pointsrandom31y ago0 comments

that's the definition of an incompetent / mediocre manager. Most organizations expect their employees and managers in poarticular to be "breaking doors", which is the opposite attitude to blindly following any internal process.

0 comments

7 comments · 2 top-level

lovich1y ago· 4 in thread

You have a very warped view of the world if you think most companies, or even Amazon in particular, are expecting their employees to be “breaking doors”.

They are literally mandating people come in to sit in a room on video calls with people sitting in a room in other offices all around the country/world. That’s the most egregious one, but add up all the controls, pair it with layoffs and threats of more, and you’re not going to end up with an employee base that’s testing the limits of what’s possible. You’ll end up with a well behaved herd of docile workers.

They’re not going to change that behavior by getting rid of middle managers when those demands are coming from the C levels or the board

ryandrake1y ago

To be fair, OP was talking about the companies' expectations, not the behavior they are incentivizing. Many companies expect their employees to innovate, while implementing processes that prevent innovation. Many companies expect their employees to "take courageous risks" while punishing risk-taking that goes wrong. Many companies expect their employees to "act like they are owners" while giving them no equity or profit sharing.

random3OP1y ago

Exactly. It is about expectations, and it is about inbalance. Every employee expects ideal benefits with minimal work, every emplyer expects ideal work with mininal benefits. The reality is balance here is one of very many possibilities with leverage being most of the times one one side, rather than in the middle.

Complaining about the structure is like your sales complaining that your customers choose your competition's product - nobody cares.

lovich1y ago

Ah yes, I do see that distinction. I was only talking about what they were _doing_, not what they _expected_

random3OP1y ago

You only need managers to the extent their actions can have an effect down the line. Otherwise they don't "manage" anything, hence they become communication brokers, potentially unnecessary. The reality is that in most cases that's the reality, but that doesn't make the reality the goal and, in fact, motivates these decisions.

I think Gervais captures these dynamics the best https://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-principle/

bdangubic1y ago· 1 in thread

this is same as saying soldiers in the military have the right to decide which orders they can disobey and which not

random3OP1y ago

Almost - it's called "mission command" and the core idea is to prioritize initiative, flexibility, and independent judgment over strict adherence to orders’ exact wording.

https://www.army.mil/article/106872/understanding_mission_co...

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

7 comments · 2 top-level

lovich1y ago· 4 in thread

You have a very warped view of the world if you think most companies, or even Amazon in particular, are expecting their employees to be “breaking doors”.

They’re not going to change that behavior by getting rid of middle managers when those demands are coming from the C levels or the board

ryandrake1y ago

random3OP1y ago

Complaining about the structure is like your sales complaining that your customers choose your competition's product - nobody cares.

lovich1y ago

Ah yes, I do see that distinction. I was only talking about what they were _doing_, not what they _expected_

random3OP1y ago

I think Gervais captures these dynamics the best https://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-principle/

bdangubic1y ago· 1 in thread

this is same as saying soldiers in the military have the right to decide which orders they can disobey and which not

random3OP1y ago

Almost - it's called "mission command" and the core idea is to prioritize initiative, flexibility, and independent judgment over strict adherence to orders’ exact wording.

https://www.army.mil/article/106872/understanding_mission_co...

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse