They do say that reviewers have to have some kind of aviation experience. I'd be more curious reading an article about how they source the talent here.
This still sets a reviewer accuracy minimum, but it is determined implicitly by the arbitrary test penalty instead of consciously chosen based on application requirements. I don't see how that's an improvement. If you absolutely want to have negative earnings, it would make more sense to choose a reviewer accuracy minimum to aim for, and then determine the penalty that would achieve that target, instead of the other way around.
Moreover, a reviewer earning nothing on expectation under this scheme (they work for 15 minutes, then fail a test, and have all their earnings wiped out) could team up with a second reviewer with the same problem, submitting their answer only when both agree, and as long as their errors aren't 100% correlated, they would end up with positive expected earnings they could split between them.
This clearly indicates that the incentive scheme as designed doesn't capture the full economic value of even lower-quality data when processed appropriately. Of course you can't expect random reviewers to spontaneously work together in this way, so it's up to the data consumer to combine the work of multiple reviewers as appropriate.
Trying to get reliable results from humans by exclusively hiring the most reliable ones can only get you so far; you can do much better by designing systems to use redundancy to correct errors when they inevitably do appear. Ironically, this is a case where treating humans as fallible cogs in a big machine would be more respectful.
But as other commenters have warned: beware of labor laws, especially in CA/NY/MA.
I've had a front-row seat to this...our company hires + employs contract W2 and 1099 workers for the tech industry. Two years ago we started to get a ton of demand from data labeling companies and more recently foundation model cos who are doing DIY data labeling. Companies are converting 1099 workforces to W2 to avoid misclassification. Or they're trying to button up their use of 1099 to avoid being offside.
I would think such people can make better money by actually working as a pilot or controller?
EDIT: and that assumes perfect accuracy, the actual pay will be lower if you miss anything
Early career professional pilots make surprisingly little money flying.
And professional pilots of all sorts often find themselves in a hotel in a city away from home with time to kill.
That's an immediate nope for me. I don't care if I can file a dispute, unless I can resolve it then and there, I'm not going to be at the whim of some faceless escalation system, or an uninformed CS agent.
Have they censored their own article?
Paying top performers above market rates to do nothing but data labelling is a moat that just keeps getting deeper.
They didn't even address the wellbeing of players, managing addiction and overwork etc.
To play devil's advocate, the average gambler is not problematic either, it's the outliers that are the problem.
> Obvious but necessary: to incentivize productive work, we tie compensation to the number of characters transcribed, and assess financial penalties for failed tests (more on tests below). Penalties are priced such that subpar performance will result in little to no earnings for the labeller.
So, these aren't employees? The writeup talks about not trusting gig workers, but it sounds like they have gig workers, and a particularly questionable kind.
Not like independent contractors with the usual freedoms. But rather, under a punishing set of Kafkaesque rules, like someone was thinking only of computer programs, oops. "Gamified", with huge negative points penalties and everything. To be under threat of not getting paid at all.
I see that this article is dated the 16th, so it's before the HN outrage last week, over the founders who demoed a system for monitoring factory worker performance, and were ripped a new one online for dehumanizing employees.
Despite the factory system being not as invasive, dehumanizing, and potentially labor law-violating as what's described in this article: about whip-cracking of gig workers, moment-to-moment, and even not paying them.
I'm not even sure you'd get away with calling them "independent contractors", under these conditions, when workers save copies of this blog post, to show to labor lawyers and state regulators.
(Incidentally, I wasn't aware that a company working in aviation gets skilled workers this way. The usual way I've seen is to hire someone, with all the respect, rights, and benefits that entails. Or to hire a consultant who is decidedly not treated like a gig worker in a techno-dystopian sweatshop.)
I don't want Internet mob justice here, but I want to ask who is advising these startups regarding how they think of their place in the world, relative to other humans?
I can understand getting as far as VC pitches while overwhelmed with fixating on other aspects of the business problems, and still passing the "does this person have a good enough chance to have a big exit" gut feel test of the VCs. But are there no ongoing checks and advising, so that people don't miss everything else?
If they are operating as described, it’s almost certainly illegal. They deserve to be hit with a nice, fat PAGA lawsuit. These workers would have to satisfy the “ABC test” to be exempt from minimum wage obligations, and it’s a difficult standard to meet: https://www.labor.ca.gov/employmentstatus/abctest/
> I want to ask who is advising these startups regarding how they think of their place in the world, relative to other humans?
To me, this has been one of the most dispiriting things to witness in the last few years: not just the normalization, but the outright glorification, of indecency. Shameful.
I'm not defending these practices, but to share some context:
One of the problems with getting workers to review ML output is it's incredibly, unbelievably boring. When the task is to review model output you're going to hit the 'approve' button 99% of the time - and when you're being paid for speed, nothing's faster than hitting the approve button.
So understandably a decent number of folks will just zone out, maybe put youtube on in another window, and sit there hitting approve 100% of the time. That's just human nature when dealing with such an incredibly dull task - I know I don't pay attention when I have to do my annual refresher training on how to sit in a chair.
This sort of thing is a big problem for things like airport baggage scanner operators; pilots with their planes on autopilot; lifeguards; casino CCTV operators; and suchlike. There are loads of studies about this kind of stuff.
This makes getting good quality ML output reviews quite tricky. There are ways to do it, though, and you don't have to resort to negative income!
If the writer had the benefit of seeing the few-post outrage on the 25th, they probably would've written the article differently, and maybe also reflected on the dynamic with the workers.
In a startup, when you have to do all the things, and you're constantly learning, it's easy to miss some things. Also, a lot of the funded tech startups are of founders of rich parents and sheltered upbringings, for various reasons. So (like all humans) they often have little understanding of the situations of people who are not them, and therefore little automatic empathy for the not understood. Often (this can also be normal human reaction), they will implicitly imagine themselves as deserving whatever privileges they have, and therefore having superior merit over others who don't have that. So, without reflection, one might accept the situation of one person calling themselves CEO at 20, and taking the lion's share of the entire effort's wealth, while another person is belittled and treated like shit, since (the implicit belief goes) they both must merit their lots in life.
Unless and until we stop and think about it. I think that most people here on HN, when we're distracted from empathy, by all the commotion of all things we have to pay attention to, will care once it's pointed out. We stop and reflect, and then we try to learn and do better.
An independent contractor is more likely to not be paid for meeting mutually agreed terms, not less likely.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023
