In China maybe where it's 100k RMB (~roughly $14k). Everywhere else it's the double or at least $25k. It's £26k ($32k) in the UK. It's €32k ($33k) in Germany
Even in Mexico it's $26k (535k pesos) not $14k https://www.autocosmos.com.mx/catalogo/vigente/byd/dolphin
Still not US$14k, but not quite the $25k it is in other markets.
While still higher, I believe these are all very reasonable prices — perhaps just not as mind blowing. I’m optimistic for the future.
I was ready to hate on it, but for the price and quality inside at least, wild. It also drove like any other car in the low/mid range that I’ve owned, wheel felt confident and had some heft to it (my preference).
My typical charging regime is: charge to 80%. Drive until the car has done 100km (down to ~50% capacity), then charge back up to 80%. If we go over 100km in a day the car drops below 50%. That can't be topped up in a single night, but it just means the charging accumulates over the next few nights until it's back to 80%. It works as long as the average is less than 100km per day and the peak is less than 300km per day.
Whilst it wouldn't do for a taxi, it's perfectly okay for the driving we do.
Additionally, a level 2 charger is just a high amperage wall socket plus some safety equipment.
Things tend to be much closer than they are in the U.S.
There is alot if variety for cars. The US market can't be the only market keeping every European and Asian car manufacturer in business.
Let capitalism dictate where the cars get made. It is the American way.
the question should be: Should American consumers be allowed to drive green environmentally friendly cars for $10k or should they be forced to shell out $50k (+interest) to billionaire elon musk
On 12/17/24 they hit a 52 week high around $490 per share. Since then, in less than two months, they have lost one third of their value. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA/
Musk has single-handedly alienated his core domestic buying demographic in favor of a group that, when polled, says they would not consider an EV at rates of around 70%.
EU markets in which TSLA was viable but contested are even worse.
This while Tesla's strongest international competitor is passing on units sold, executing better, and underpricing them.
As someone who has followed Tesla since the Model S, previously held Musk in some regard, and test drove a Model 3 I find this such an abject travesty of an outcome for what should have been a great US based global car maker and someone who had the potential to accomplish such good for the world with their incredible wealth and privilege.
I was floored by what they are producing in China. It is a shame that these cars are not reaching more of the world and raising the competitive bar. I get the government subsidy and lower labor costs issues, but the tariffs are retarding competition, propping up prices, and hurting consumers.
Without all the trade restrictions, you could buy a BYD EV for 10k. It's not the greatest car ever, but it would be a cool city car. Naw, better go and pay 40k for a worse American version.
Temu is getting basically banned. It's not enough I pay around 40% of my income on in taxes and healthcare insurance, I now much pay higher prices for the same stuff on Amazon.
American cars are expensive because Americans have been convinced buying big SUVs is AMERICAN and patriotic, and even the Americans who aren’t dumb enough to fall for that nonsense have to buy bigger cars because we’re in a car size arms race and it’s outright scary driving a normal hatchback around these massive Trucks masquerading as cars.
This has lowered demand for smaller and cheaper cars, giving auto manufacturers the perfect excuse to stop selling small cars in the U.S. especially since SUVs are just not profitable because they’re unsophisticated and yet super expensive.
No, you couldn’t. In Switzerland there are no EV trade restrictions and no, we do not have 10k BYDs. They cost roughly same as any other Western manufacturer.
Hell, Obama didn’t let the auto industry die back in 2008. Can you imagine Trump, who said there would be a "bloodbath" in the auto industry without him—allowing a $10K Chinese car into the U.S. market?
These are the arguments in favor of tariffs on Chinese autos, I understand they cause a disparity, and yes, IMO they are disproportionate.
It was a pretty bad and uncomfortable pattern to watch unfold online, and many people unfollowed their work because of how awful his (and honestly a few of the others who contribute) attitude(s) are.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chines...
They could probably build cars in one of those places that would be economically viable in the US if not for the tariffs, and would satisfy US labor sensibilities.
Also the workers in that article are supposedly being paid very close to $7/hr, which is close to Brazil's median income.
>Intricate, invisible webs, just like this one, link some of the world’s largest food companies and most popular brands to jobs performed by U.S. prisoners nationwide, according to a sweeping two-year AP investigation into prison labor that tied hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of agricultural products to goods sold on the open market.
https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-inve...
uyghur workers are same as other chinese workers, smart, hardworking, diligent, reliable, and they don't bring drugs to factory
btw, we are all forced labor in the 'world factory', forced to work overtime and earn little, to serve the empire and its golden 1b people
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq55zd2xjreo
>Musk opposes US tariffs on Chinese electric cars. "In fact, I was surprised when they were announced. Things that inhibit freedom of exchange or distort the market are not good," Mr Musk said on Thursday. “Tesla competes quite well in the market in China with no tariffs and no deferential support. I’m in favour of no tariffs," he added.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas...
and it's changing
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/07/tesla-car-sales-in-china-fal...
I thought the republicans were in favor of a free market, but it seems more like those with power don’t mind putting some weight on their side of the scale, since they own the scale and the bank.
> I think Elon wants to compete in that kind of market, not bog it down with regulation
Be careful about any phrase that starts with “I think {person} wants to…” especially if person is rich/powerful. Judge people based on their actions, not the facade they put on.
Exactly what market is that? Where Tesla has 0 responsibility for any issues / defects / deaths-from-FSD? Sure, that market he wants to play in - it has only upside for him.
The one where he has to compete on price/features/whatever, and he can't make rude comments or cut people off who he doesn't like? Please pass the bong..
What’s to stop manufacturers of goods from shipping it from a country that is not China, laundering it through a different country. Paper work for container says, “imported from {non tariff restricted country}” at the ship yard.
Cheap Chinese goods still flood the market. Orange man gets to say he has been hard on China via tariff war.
It seems like if there was a $15-$20k EV in the US market, it would be a no-brainer "around town" second car.
Instead we get $30k Model 3/Y's or $80k EV SUV/Vans.
Probably from Tesla.com. It lists the long range RWD cash price as $29920 (in my state) unless you notice the checked checkbox that says "Include est. incentives of $7,500 and 5-year gas savings of $<whatever> for <your_state>" and uncheck it.
$whatever is $5000 for my state.
Kinda missing the point that you get 50% more range in the Dolphin, plus a lot of additional niceties / tech stuff that is just not available in the Leaf.
Aluminium and steel costs significantly less in China than the rest of the world, but they now face significant problems because of overcapacity. There are so much factories built and so small demand companies can not survive without help from the Government. They were build thanks to cheap loans from the Government.
So the Government made an investment that is not making money, so basically is a transfer of wealth from bank savers account to industry.
This is also applied in the US and EU, let's remember interest rates below inflation, "Quantitative Easing" and other transfers of wealth the central banks do in the West.
Tesla was also subsidised.
It feels like this is true for any older Western country like Germany or the UK too. Why exactly have China been successful in reducing costs?
You can easily get a used EV in good working order for under $15K though: https://insideevs.com/features/715984/best-used-evs-on-a-bud...
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cta?auto_make_model=niss...
Every few months Electrek publishes a list of EVs that can be leased in the United States for under $200/month. Sometimes they're as cheap as $99 or even $0/month, depending on your state's incentives.
They’re not including the downpayment.
However as we witnessed during the pandemic, manufacturers of goods tend to increase the cost of the goods despite minimal increase in supply chain, cost of materials or labor. It’s all for maximizing profit and they were “testing” the market to reap massive profits.
With no competition, they (collectively as an industry) felt no need to decrease prices or offer cheaper vehicle options.
I also suspect abuse of CAFE exceptions (ie, “light duty trucks”) is the second leading cause of the death of affordable vehicles.
If anything, I would consider using the word "god" in a commercial tech product to be disrespectful to an actual believer.
Among atheists one would think it would no more troubling than referencing Legolas in a name. [1]
In China I suspect they'd object to "Mao's Eyes" as a name for this.
[1] Many atheists may register an objection on the grounds of upsetting others in the community.
Plus, like in English, there are a ton of words people use more for the poetic impressiveness than because they're specifically asserting a supernatural power.
Also, when a religion refuses to gain approval, the party quite literally hard forks it. Catholic? No, you have the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association; which was only recently tentatively reconciled after about 60 years of schism (though it’s still a very uneasy peace).
I mean for one that religion isn't frowned upon and that it's just a marketing slogan, but also if you want to actually look at it, the Chinese phrase used by BYD is: 天神之眼, what they've in English translated to "God" is, in Chinese "Tian" (Heaven) a very common concept you have in Taoism or Confucianism or pretty much any Chinese mythology. You might have come across the phrase Tianxia (天下) "under heaven". But for an Anglophone audience "God" is probably catchier.
I think it literally means god in Chinese. There are various ways to get god out sky (like laotian, tianna, etc...).
What gave you this idea?
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/10/23/10-things...
Especially point #8, "The ruling Chinese Communist Party promotes atheism and discourages citizens from practicing religion"
there're only certain stages of economy had advantages in foreign trade so they claim themself as 'free market' and try to force others accept this 'free market'
Perhaps this Chinese EV car is loaded up to the tits with surveillance technology and EV company is going to go behind your back and sell it to the highest bidder to make up the loss in sale of vehicle.
A lot of the chinese car brands are using European design expertise. Nio and Zeekr have a full 5-star Euro NCAP lineup, and even the small weird ones like the “Ora Funky Cat” are getting top safety marks.
This is true about Tesla FSD (which costs $$$$) too, but alas.
So no, that wasn't free either.
suddenly some foreign company gains control over traffic in your country
think how it works with various Maps and their pathfinding algorithms, how often you see drivers blindly following Maps instructions? how often do you see drivers who are clueless without Maps?
the self driving / remote control will cause even more problems (+ some car manufacturers simply cannot achieve good quality)
I love FSD. I use it daily. It's replaced a lot of driving for me. This should 100% be available to everyone for free. It will significantly improve safety once edge cases are worked out.
i can't speak for snow tho.
And I was eating it up until she turned on self-driving and we crashed into a parked car.
Still a really great EV car at a great price. But I'm not ready for any car's self-driving after that...
I mean, I don't see your problem; she was simply demonstrating that it had the same capability to randomly crash into things as Tesla's solution! That's what people _like_ about the Tesla one; keeps things interesting.
This possibility paints a frightening picture of the power of government in the global marketplace. The government of any large country can selectively choose to monopolize any specific industry and wipe out all competitors in other countries via subsidies.
It's not a fair playing field for market participants. It makes the whole environment completely unpredictable and dominated by the whims of hundreds of different governments. It promotes government scheming over raw productive capabilities of workers and entrepreneurs; it throws decentralized economic efficiency under the bus in favor of monopolistic, centralized government-oriented strategies.
In such environment, I can understand why tariffs are essential. You can't have a market where participants are playing by different rules of different countries. Also, you can't expect market participants to familiarize themselves with the (possibly secret) policies of hundreds of different governments or be forced to abandon their entire industry in their own country because they happen to be skilled in an industry which is not propped up in their own country as it is in some other foreign country.
Our system is so incredibly asymmetric, right down to the monetary layer. People ought to refuse to participate at all.
BTW, it's not only China which plays these games; you could also say this about US tech/software industry.
If you look at it from a big picture, one of the major winners of the Ukraine war has been the USA oil and gas industry, as Europe now imports almost 3x the amount of LNG it did before the war from USA [0].
The USA military complex is also doing pretty well, as governments in Europe are allocating more towards defense as Russia seems like a much riskier neighbour than it was 5 years ago.
[0] https://www.bruegel.org/dataset/european-natural-gas-imports
Like the article says, Many Tesla owners are also looking to offload or sell them to avoid any appearance of endorsing Musk or his views or being linked to them in any way.
Many awkward conversations are being had with Tesla owners around Musk and alot of them don't feel comfortable owning the cars anymore.
This BYD feature, while BYD is not a perfect company themselves, will cause further issues for Tesla.
>Two higher-end versions will be installed on more expensive BYD-branded cars and its premium Denza and Yangwang brands. These will enable a car to drive autonomously — though also under human supervision — in more complex urban traffic.
The base version is self driving as in lane assist. It will not change lanes for you or 'self drive' to your destination.
I agree with BYD that these are great safety features and give them props for not gating safety behind a paywall.
Tesla like? Doesn't Tesla require that you keep your hands on the wheel ?
